Finding Truth After Loss | Better Together | TBN

Finding Truth After Loss | Better Together

Watch Finding Truth After Loss | Better Together
October 28, 2019
27:49

Kayla Stoecklein shares her husband's battle with depression and the unexpected loss that shook her family, church, and community. | TBN Prayer Line: 1-888-731-1000

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Finding Truth After Loss | Better Together

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  • - Where is God when we face devastating loss?
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  • Today, Kayla Stoecklein shares her husband's battle
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  • with depression and the sudden loss
  • 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.200
  • that shook their family, their church and their community.
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  • (uplifting music)
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  • If we can get through this week.
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  • (women laughing)
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  • The goal is to help other people this week.
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  • Sad thing about it is, if you haven't gone through grief,
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  • you're going to if you love anything.
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  • - That's right.
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  • - From your dog to children to parents to loved ones,
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  • any, you know, a broken relationship.
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  • Just saying goodbye, the grief of loving something
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  • and then it's gone.
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  • And going through that.
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  • The great thing that we can sit here and talk about
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  • is that we have a hope. - Yup.
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  • - There is hope.
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  • This week, we're talking about grief
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  • and how to get through it
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  • and I think Kayla, you have been.
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  • Your superpower (giggles) is vulnerability
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  • and you have grieved very openly
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  • and I just (stammers) adore you
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  • and I'm so thankful for what you've let Jesus
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  • do through you.
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  • I think she's got such a solid foundation
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  • down on the inside of her
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  • that she's gonna show people how to grieve
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  • and how to walk through things
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  • and I think God has just,
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  • has His hand on her in such a powerful way.
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  • She's gonna just be a light and an example
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  • to so many people.
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  • - So in the fall of 2017,
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  • Andrew started having panic attacks.
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  • My husband, Andrew.
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  • And the panic attacks were happening
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  • about two to three times a week.
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  • They're very debilitating,
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  • if you've ever seen a panic attack.
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  • His whole countenance would change,
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  • his whole body would change
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  • and I could see the fear in his eyes.
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  • And there wasn't much I could do to help him.
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  • So they started in the fall of 2017, about October,
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  • and they lasted through April
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  • and at first, we thought, you know, it's his thyroid
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  • so we were looking and doing research on his thyroid
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  • and thinking maybe he's hyper thyroid
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  • and maybe that's what's going on
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  • and turns out that it wasn't his thyroid
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  • and so in April of 2018, he landed in the hospital.
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  • And we all just said, you know, enough is enough.
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  • We can't live like this anymore.
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  • And he was leading our church at the time.
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  • He was a lead pastor of our church at the time
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  • and he had led our church through many years of struggle.
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  • His dad had passed way three years before,
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  • so he had carried the church through a lot.
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  • And we just thought he's tired.
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  • So we put him on a sabbatical in April
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  • and just a few weeks later, we started seeing a psychiatrist
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  • and he was diagnosed with depression.
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  • I'll never forget sitting in the psychiatrist's office
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  • and he looked at me and said, your husband has depression.
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  • And I was shocked.
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  • I didn't say anything.
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  • I was silent and shocked.
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  • And we walked out to the car and got in the car
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  • and sat down and I just started weeping, crying.
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  • I looked at Andrew and I said,
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  • "How did we end up here?
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  • "How did we get here?"
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  • This driven, ambitious, strong man diagnosed with depression
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  • and we had three little boys at the time:
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  • two, four and five.
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  • So busy life, busy house and now my husband has depression.
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  • And so it was a shock, you know?
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  • And he was grateful to have a diagnosis.
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  • He was grateful to finally know, you know,
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  • what's going on with me
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  • and finally to have a reason for why
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  • he had been having the panic attacks
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  • and struggling and not sleeping.
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  • So we treated the depression
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  • and basically from April to August,
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  • Andrew rested and wrestled with depression.
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  • And every day, I never knew what I was gonna get.
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  • I didn't know if he was gonna be happy or sad or angry.
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  • He spent a lot of time in the bedroom resting.
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  • We were doing everything we knew to do to get him better.
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  • We were seeing a psychiatrist every other week,
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  • we were seeing a counselor together
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  • for two hours every single week
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  • and he went on solo trips by himself
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  • to go sit with God and have time with God
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  • and gain wisdom from God.
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  • And he also went and sat with mentors,
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  • went on trips just to be with them for weeks.
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  • And we did a two week road trip just the two of us
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  • which is hard to do when you have a house full of kids.
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  • And so about August,
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  • the doctors thought that actually going back to work
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  • would be better for him.
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  • He wasn't 100%.
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  • He would've said he was 65%,
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  • so not quite fully back to himself,
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  • but the doctors thought too much time away from work
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  • would actually make his depression worse instead of better.
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  • So he went back to work in August
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  • and he wanted to talk about what he was going through.
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  • So he gave two powerful messages on mental illness.
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  • He called the series "Hot Mess"
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  • and he was talking about Elijah
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  • and how he ran into the wilderness and ran into a cave
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  • and he was so overcome with depression,
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  • he was asking God to take his life.
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  • And he gave out the suicide hotline number
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  • and he gave out the statistics from the NAMI website.
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  • You know, he knew all the facts
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  • and he was trying to help people.
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  • And he was very transparent with his story.
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  • He talked about his journey through the summer.
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  • And it was amazing.
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  • I mean, there was standing room only in the church
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  • and everyone was so thrilled
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  • that he was talking about something
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  • that doesn't get talked about enough in churches.
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  • So he gave two powerful messages
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  • and was headed into the third week
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  • and had a really bad day in the office.
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  • There was a trigger
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  • and unfortunately was never fully able to recover
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  • and the next morning, August 24, 2018,
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  • he attempted suicide and we were shocked.
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  • I mean, our church was rattled, our family was rattled.
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  • We did not see this coming.
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  • We thought he was getting better.
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  • He had gone back to work.
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  • He had just given these powerful messages.
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  • He knew the suicide hotline number.
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  • Like we were shocked, we were stunned.
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  • It wasn't supposed to happen to him.
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  • So we were in the hospital and he was on life support
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  • and unfortunately, there wasn't much the doctors could do
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  • so the next day, he passed away.
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  • And yeah, so not anything I ever thought
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  • I would be walking through,
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  • not anything I ever thought my boys would be walking through
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  • and never in a million years would I have imagined
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  • my husband, this healthy, strong man of God at 30 years old
  • 00:06:58.210 --> 00:07:03.090
  • would be in heaven.
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  • The thing I want the world to know about Andrew
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  • is that he was just a normal guy.
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  • He is just like you.
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  • He loved the Lakers, he was covered in tattoos,
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  • he was a good dad, he loved to be outside,
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  • he loved to do yard work
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  • and he loved candy.
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  • (giggles) He had a giant sweet tooth.
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  • And he was just a normal guy, just a normal guy.
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  • Good, good, good man.
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  • Loved God, incredible pastor,
  • 00:07:29.210 --> 00:07:32.110
  • brilliant communicator on and off the stage.
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  • And just an incredible husband.
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  • - My heart goes out to you for so many different reasons.
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  • Maybe one of the greatest things that comes to my mind
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  • as I was praying this morning for you was,
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  • "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
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  • "I will fear no evil."
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  • When I realized that that is not what Andrew did,
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  • that is what you do.
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  • You walked through the valley of the shadow of death.
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  • He one breath here, one breath there.
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  • There's no shadow.
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  • - Right. - No shadow of turning.
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  • But you're left here walking through
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  • with three little children in tow,
  • 00:08:09.170 --> 00:08:12.080
  • trying to make it back through
  • 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:14.090
  • the valley of the shadow of death
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  • and come back out into some form of joy.
  • 00:08:17.140 --> 00:08:21.160
  • And yet you seem to be so filled with a supernatural joy.
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  • How is that even possible?
  • 00:08:28.100 --> 00:08:30.010
  • - It's all God.
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  • It literally is all God.
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  • God's literally been holding us up since it happened.
  • 00:08:34.130 --> 00:08:37.220
  • And I've seen the hand of God and felt the presence of God
  • 00:08:37.220 --> 00:08:42.120
  • so much more powerfully in my pain
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  • than I have in my entire life.
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  • So it's undeniable to me that He's real
  • 00:08:48.140 --> 00:08:51.090
  • and it's undeniable to me that He cares
  • 00:08:51.090 --> 00:08:53.210
  • and it's undeniable to me that He intimately cares
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  • about every single little tiny detail.
  • 00:08:57.220 --> 00:09:01.010
  • And it's been so cool, you know,
  • 00:09:01.010 --> 00:09:02.110
  • from the very beginning.
  • 00:09:02.110 --> 00:09:03.190
  • I waited a week to tell my boys
  • 00:09:03.190 --> 00:09:06.040
  • just to kind of sit and process
  • 00:09:06.040 --> 00:09:08.090
  • and figure out how I was gonna tell them
  • 00:09:08.090 --> 00:09:10.170
  • and the day that I told them,
  • 00:09:10.170 --> 00:09:12.270
  • just really, really cool how God shows up
  • 00:09:12.270 --> 00:09:15.050
  • even in those moments.
  • 00:09:15.050 --> 00:09:16.180
  • It was kind of from there, you know,
  • 00:09:16.180 --> 00:09:18.220
  • it's like right away, God was like,
  • 00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:20.100
  • I'm here and I care and I'm real.
  • 00:09:20.100 --> 00:09:23.070
  • Andrew's death was very sudden.
  • 00:09:23.070 --> 00:09:25.240
  • None of us saw it coming,
  • 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.030
  • so when it happened,
  • 00:09:28.030 --> 00:09:30.130
  • my dad swooped in and took the boys for me
  • 00:09:30.130 --> 00:09:33.180
  • and I stayed with my brother-in-law for a week.
  • 00:09:33.180 --> 00:09:37.030
  • And there is so many things you have to do
  • 00:09:37.030 --> 00:09:39.170
  • when someone passes away.
  • 00:09:39.170 --> 00:09:41.020
  • There's so many things we needed to take care of.
  • 00:09:41.020 --> 00:09:43.240
  • So I spent that week grieving heavily,
  • 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:47.090
  • grieving very heavily.
  • 00:09:47.090 --> 00:09:48.280
  • I spent that week crying a ton
  • 00:09:48.280 --> 00:09:52.070
  • and just being surrounded by family and friends
  • 00:09:52.070 --> 00:09:55.170
  • and sitting in my pain.
  • 00:09:55.170 --> 00:09:57.290
  • I didn't plan on waiting a week to tell my kids.
  • 00:09:59.050 --> 00:10:01.220
  • It just kinda happened and I'm so grateful that I did.
  • 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:04.210
  • I'm so grateful that I took the time
  • 00:10:04.210 --> 00:10:06.100
  • to meet with child life specialists
  • 00:10:06.100 --> 00:10:09.030
  • and talk to people that are way smarter than me
  • 00:10:09.030 --> 00:10:11.090
  • and ask them questions about how to tell them.
  • 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:14.110
  • And suicide makes it complicated
  • 00:10:14.110 --> 00:10:16.120
  • and I didn't wanna lie to them,
  • 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:18.090
  • so I wanted to do my research
  • 00:10:18.090 --> 00:10:19.240
  • and make sure that I had it right
  • 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.090
  • and had the right conversation.
  • 00:10:22.090 --> 00:10:24.140
  • And so I sat them down and told them what happened
  • 00:10:24.140 --> 00:10:27.100
  • and then me and my oldest son
  • 00:10:27.100 --> 00:10:29.090
  • sat and colored in this coloring book.
  • 00:10:29.090 --> 00:10:31.040
  • It's called "When Someone That You Love Dies."
  • 00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:33.260
  • And the very first page talks about
  • 00:10:33.260 --> 00:10:35.150
  • the life cycle of a caterpillar.
  • 00:10:35.150 --> 00:10:37.130
  • So there was an egg and then a caterpillar
  • 00:10:37.130 --> 00:10:39.130
  • and then a cocoon and then a butterfly.
  • 00:10:39.130 --> 00:10:41.100
  • So we were sitting there coloring this book
  • 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:42.260
  • and talking about how Daddy died
  • 00:10:42.260 --> 00:10:44.140
  • and just how we're gonna get through this,
  • 00:10:44.140 --> 00:10:46.260
  • you know, just like the butterfly and rebirth and new life.
  • 00:10:46.260 --> 00:10:50.050
  • And after that, it was nap time
  • 00:10:50.050 --> 00:10:53.200
  • and I went to close the curtains
  • 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.030
  • and right where I reached to close the curtains,
  • 00:10:56.030 --> 00:10:58.100
  • there was a little tiny green caterpillar.
  • 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:00.140
  • - Oh my goodness. - And I don't touch bugs.
  • 00:11:00.140 --> 00:11:03.100
  • (women laugh)
  • 00:11:03.100 --> 00:11:04.280
  • I was shocked.
  • 00:11:04.280 --> 00:11:05.240
  • No way!
  • 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:07.090
  • I picked it up and grabbed it and showed my son, Smith.
  • 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:10.140
  • And we had just colored in the coloring book
  • 00:11:10.140 --> 00:11:12.090
  • and he said, that's a miracle from God.
  • 00:11:12.090 --> 00:11:15.110
  • And it was so special.
  • 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:17.090
  • And that's just what God does
  • 00:11:17.090 --> 00:11:19.270
  • and that's what God's done through our whole journey,
  • 00:11:19.270 --> 00:11:22.060
  • you know, almost a year.
  • 00:11:22.060 --> 00:11:23.140
  • And it's like those little tiny miracles
  • 00:11:23.140 --> 00:11:26.000
  • that maybe I wouldn't have noticed before.
  • 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.130
  • And those little tiny glimpses of Him and glimpses of heaven
  • 00:11:28.130 --> 00:11:31.250
  • and kisses from heaven.
  • 00:11:31.250 --> 00:11:33.230
  • And I love that He, that day, gave Smith something
  • 00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:37.010
  • that he could understand.
  • 00:11:37.010 --> 00:11:38.280
  • You know, He gave a miracle
  • 00:11:38.280 --> 00:11:40.120
  • in the size that Smith could understand.
  • 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:42.100
  • - That's so good. - Yeah.
  • 00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:43.220
  • - So good. - So only with God
  • 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:45.250
  • have I walked through it.
  • 00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:47.080
  • Yeah.
  • 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:48.160
  • - Either you've gone through grief,
  • 00:11:48.160 --> 00:11:50.160
  • either you're going through grief
  • 00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:52.280
  • or prepare yourself: you will go through grief one day.
  • 00:11:52.280 --> 00:11:57.030
  • And I just think that people that have come through it,
  • 00:11:57.030 --> 00:12:01.270
  • people that are going through it
  • 00:12:01.270 --> 00:12:03.140
  • that are overcoming daily,
  • 00:12:03.140 --> 00:12:06.120
  • that's someone I wanna listen to.
  • 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.130
  • And if you love something,
  • 00:12:08.130 --> 00:12:10.190
  • if you love somebody,
  • 00:12:10.190 --> 00:12:12.070
  • you're going to experience grief in this life
  • 00:12:12.070 --> 00:12:14.160
  • because we're not in heaven yet.
  • 00:12:14.160 --> 00:12:16.090
  • So I just think this is hopefully gonna reach out
  • 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:21.200
  • and help some of you that are walking through it
  • 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.020
  • to maybe see a little more clearly.
  • 00:12:25.210 --> 00:12:27.200
  • Let someone else's experience help pull you through
  • 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:32.150
  • and just give you hope,
  • 00:12:33.270 --> 00:12:36.210
  • give all of us hope.
  • 00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:38.120
  • All of us need the hope to get through these things
  • 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.200
  • and we have that hope.
  • 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.210
  • And that's why I think this is so important today.
  • 00:12:43.210 --> 00:12:46.130
  • (uplifting music)
  • 00:12:47.210 --> 00:12:48.290
  • - If you're grieving, we're here for you.
  • 00:12:48.290 --> 00:12:50.220
  • Our social media community encourages and prays
  • 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:54.020
  • for each other daily.
  • 00:12:54.020 --> 00:12:55.120
  • - [Woman] Link arms with women around the world
  • 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:57.200
  • at Better Together TV.
  • 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.060
  • - We're not created to walk through this life alone.
  • 00:12:59.060 --> 00:13:01.250
  • As you're Better Together family,
  • 00:13:03.050 --> 00:13:04.240
  • we want you to know that there is hope.
  • 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.080
  • If you or a loved one are having thoughts of suicide,
  • 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.080
  • please do not hesitate to call the number on your screen.
  • 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.150
  • All calls are confidential.
  • 00:13:13.150 --> 00:13:15.060
  • Talk about awareness and care.
  • 00:13:18.010 --> 00:13:20.260
  • - Well mental health issues are so common
  • 00:13:22.020 --> 00:13:24.130
  • and there are so many people suffering in silence.
  • 00:13:24.130 --> 00:13:27.060
  • And they're feeling isolated,
  • 00:13:27.060 --> 00:13:29.120
  • they don't know where to go for help or who to turn to
  • 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.000
  • and I think there is a lot of stigma still.
  • 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.290
  • It's improving, but there's still a lot of stigma
  • 00:13:34.290 --> 00:13:37.100
  • and shame about mental health issues.
  • 00:13:37.100 --> 00:13:40.000
  • But statistics tell a really alarming story.
  • 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.150
  • So one in five American adults
  • 00:13:42.150 --> 00:13:45.210
  • experience a mental health issue.
  • 00:13:45.210 --> 00:13:48.090
  • The picture for young adults
  • 00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:51.040
  • aged 18-25 is even more concerning.
  • 00:13:51.040 --> 00:13:54.100
  • It's one in four experience a mental health condition.
  • 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:58.220
  • And so this is people in our friendship circle,
  • 00:13:58.220 --> 00:14:01.210
  • our church, our small group, at work,
  • 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:04.100
  • who are struggling with depression, with anxiety.
  • 00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:07.040
  • And I think when there's awareness,
  • 00:14:07.040 --> 00:14:10.110
  • it actually opens up the path to have the conversation
  • 00:14:10.110 --> 00:14:14.020
  • and really check in and put value on people
  • 00:14:14.020 --> 00:14:16.210
  • and ask how are you
  • 00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:18.220
  • and to realize that everyone is struggling with something
  • 00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:21.100
  • and we need to lean in and check how are people doing.
  • 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:26.030
  • I think that awareness opens up the path to seek treatment.
  • 00:14:26.030 --> 00:14:29.240
  • Where there's shame and stigma around mental health issues,
  • 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:33.030
  • people are afraid to seek treatment
  • 00:14:33.030 --> 00:14:35.120
  • because they're worried what will people think of me?
  • 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.120
  • And sometimes it can be seen as weakness.
  • 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.000
  • - What can we do to keep our own personal shame at a minimum
  • 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:45.000
  • and how can we help others around us?
  • 00:14:46.050 --> 00:14:48.190
  • - Well shame, one good definition that I've heard
  • 00:14:48.190 --> 00:14:50.230
  • is that shame is I am bad.
  • 00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:52.070
  • So guilty is I've done something bad or wrong.
  • 00:14:52.070 --> 00:14:55.260
  • And that can be healthy to motivate us to make change.
  • 00:14:55.260 --> 00:14:58.080
  • Shame is I am bad.
  • 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.050
  • And so we need to be renewing our mind with truth
  • 00:15:00.050 --> 00:15:03.060
  • that I'm not bad, I'm renewed in Christ.
  • 00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:07.180
  • I'm made worthy through what Christ has done.
  • 00:15:07.180 --> 00:15:09.280
  • And so it's recognizing that voice of shame
  • 00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:13.240
  • which comes up and speaks to our mind.
  • 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.160
  • We all experience it at times.
  • 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:19.160
  • So it's really important
  • 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:21.210
  • that we recognize the voice of shame when it does come up
  • 00:15:21.210 --> 00:15:25.160
  • because shame does have a voice and it does have a message
  • 00:15:25.160 --> 00:15:29.100
  • that it tries to send us
  • 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:31.040
  • and if we allow that voice of shame to speak to our hearts
  • 00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:36.040
  • and if we actually let it sink into our hearts,
  • 00:15:37.090 --> 00:15:38.240
  • then actually that can keep us crippled
  • 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:40.290
  • and it can keep us in depression,
  • 00:15:40.290 --> 00:15:42.250
  • it can keep us in anxiety and fear.
  • 00:15:42.250 --> 00:15:46.040
  • And so learn to know what shame sounds like for you
  • 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:50.180
  • and when that voice of shame does come up,
  • 00:15:51.230 --> 00:15:54.110
  • actually call it out and say,
  • 00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:56.190
  • hey, this is my shame advisor or shame speaking to me.
  • 00:15:56.190 --> 00:16:01.000
  • I recognize it, but that's actually not truth
  • 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:04.100
  • and I'm going to choose to focus on truth.
  • 00:16:04.100 --> 00:16:08.010
  • And that's actually a discipline of the mind
  • 00:16:08.010 --> 00:16:10.230
  • and it's a skill that can be built
  • 00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:14.050
  • and it gets easier in time.
  • 00:16:14.050 --> 00:16:16.020
  • It's almost like building a muscle.
  • 00:16:16.020 --> 00:16:18.240
  • - So what I'm hearing you say then
  • 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.170
  • is the best thing that you can do
  • 00:16:20.170 --> 00:16:23.040
  • is just tell the person you're not bad,
  • 00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:27.070
  • you're not wrong, you don't have to wear shame,
  • 00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:29.160
  • you don't have to--
  • 00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:30.240
  • So if we counteract it, will that help?
  • 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.270
  • - That can help, but I think first
  • 00:16:32.270 --> 00:16:34.050
  • we need to stop and listen,
  • 00:16:34.050 --> 00:16:35.240
  • to lean in and just ask, how are you?
  • 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:38.100
  • Can you tell me what's it like
  • 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:40.080
  • to go through that experience?
  • 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:41.220
  • Listen, validate their feelings rather than saying,
  • 00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:46.030
  • oh, you shouldn't feel sad or you shouldn't feel anxious.
  • 00:16:46.030 --> 00:16:49.080
  • You should be happy!
  • 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.060
  • Look, we've got these churches.
  • 00:16:50.060 --> 00:16:51.290
  • Like can you tell me more about that?
  • 00:16:51.290 --> 00:16:53.170
  • - Makes you feel like, well, I have a real feeling.
  • 00:16:53.170 --> 00:16:55.150
  • It may not be true, but it's a feeling I have.
  • 00:16:55.150 --> 00:16:58.030
  • - And it increases the shame.
  • 00:16:58.030 --> 00:16:59.210
  • (talking over each other)
  • 00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:01.230
  • - Exactly.
  • 00:17:01.230 --> 00:17:03.070
  • Yeah, in psychology we call that dirty distress,
  • 00:17:03.070 --> 00:17:05.110
  • where it's I'm feeling angry that I'm so sad
  • 00:17:05.110 --> 00:17:09.030
  • or that I'm so anxious.
  • 00:17:09.030 --> 00:17:10.270
  • I should be over this by now.
  • 00:17:10.270 --> 00:17:12.170
  • - So how do you validate?
  • 00:17:12.170 --> 00:17:14.220
  • - I think it's saying,
  • 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:16.080
  • that's so understandable that you feel that way.
  • 00:17:17.140 --> 00:17:19.090
  • I'm so sorry that you're struggling
  • 00:17:19.090 --> 00:17:21.080
  • with those feelings of fear
  • 00:17:21.080 --> 00:17:23.120
  • or with those feelings of sadness.
  • 00:17:23.120 --> 00:17:26.150
  • Can you tell me more about that?
  • 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:27.280
  • - So always giving somebody the word and saying,
  • 00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:30.100
  • God did not give you a spirit of fear.
  • 00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:31.240
  • That's not always helpful. - Not always.
  • 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.220
  • At times it can be helpful,
  • 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:35.140
  • but definitely start with listening and validating.
  • 00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:39.210
  • And that then opens up someone's heart.
  • 00:17:39.210 --> 00:17:42.000
  • They see that you're a safe person to talk to
  • 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.020
  • and then they are more likely to open up and share
  • 00:17:45.020 --> 00:17:49.090
  • how they're really going with you.
  • 00:17:49.090 --> 00:17:50.230
  • - What's been the most healing thing for you?
  • 00:17:50.230 --> 00:17:53.000
  • - I've learned so much on the other side of the suicide.
  • 00:17:54.120 --> 00:17:58.250
  • And wanting to help people
  • 00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:01.290
  • and wanting to, like you said, break that stigma
  • 00:18:01.290 --> 00:18:04.190
  • and break the shame and open up the conversation
  • 00:18:04.190 --> 00:18:07.170
  • and I just agree with everything you're saying.
  • 00:18:07.170 --> 00:18:09.200
  • That it's empathy and it's asking questions.
  • 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.250
  • It's not trying to fix.
  • 00:18:12.250 --> 00:18:14.100
  • You know, I think we just so badly wanna be like,
  • 00:18:14.100 --> 00:18:16.180
  • you're fine!
  • 00:18:16.180 --> 00:18:17.160
  • You know, like snap out of it.
  • 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.270
  • - You have so much to live for.
  • 00:18:18.270 --> 00:18:19.290
  • - Go for a run, you know?
  • 00:18:19.290 --> 00:18:21.150
  • Go have a salad.
  • 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:22.260
  • Go read your Bible.
  • 00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:23.290
  • Like we say these things to them
  • 00:18:23.290 --> 00:18:26.100
  • and we have to remember and keep in mind
  • 00:18:26.100 --> 00:18:28.130
  • that their brain is sick
  • 00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:30.180
  • and their brain isn't thinking rationally.
  • 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.120
  • They're incapable of rational thought.
  • 00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:36.030
  • So their brain isn't thinking like our brains' thinking.
  • 00:18:36.030 --> 00:18:38.120
  • And so I think so often with Andrew,
  • 00:18:38.120 --> 00:18:40.280
  • I thought that I was talking to healthy Andrew
  • 00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:43.240
  • when in fact I was talking to sick Andrew
  • 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.250
  • and I wasn't able to differentiate the two.
  • 00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:49.090
  • And I think when you're walking alongside somebody,
  • 00:18:49.090 --> 00:18:51.150
  • it's very difficult to differentiate between
  • 00:18:51.150 --> 00:18:54.260
  • mental illness and healthy.
  • 00:18:54.260 --> 00:18:57.000
  • And I think it's a little back and forth.
  • 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.140
  • And so I just agree that, you know,
  • 00:18:59.140 --> 00:19:01.060
  • the best thing you can do is offer empathy
  • 00:19:01.060 --> 00:19:04.060
  • and just meet them where they are.
  • 00:19:04.060 --> 00:19:06.100
  • Meet them where they're at and ask a ton of questions.
  • 00:19:06.100 --> 00:19:10.080
  • I didn't do a good enough job asking questions.
  • 00:19:10.080 --> 00:19:12.270
  • I wish I would've asked more questions.
  • 00:19:12.270 --> 00:19:15.060
  • And just sit with them in their pain.
  • 00:19:15.060 --> 00:19:18.050
  • Yeah, and treat it together.
  • 00:19:18.050 --> 00:19:20.140
  • It's not a solo thing.
  • 00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:22.000
  • Like you go to the doctor and you figure it out on your own.
  • 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.140
  • It's like, treat it as a team.
  • 00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:26.160
  • Make sure someone goes
  • 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.010
  • to every single doctors appointment with them.
  • 00:19:28.010 --> 00:19:30.260
  • Make sure they're not alone.
  • 00:19:30.260 --> 00:19:32.150
  • If they're wanting to isolate in the bedroom,
  • 00:19:32.150 --> 00:19:34.090
  • go sit back there with them and watch a movie
  • 00:19:34.090 --> 00:19:37.000
  • or encourage them to come out. - Well I even heard you say
  • 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.080
  • last night that sometimes you'd go to the doctor alone
  • 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:43.040
  • and say, I'm feeling better.
  • 00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:45.100
  • Whereas you could tell he's not feeling better.
  • 00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:48.040
  • - That's right, yeah.
  • 00:19:48.040 --> 00:19:49.190
  • And I think he wasn't even able to articulate properly
  • 00:19:49.190 --> 00:19:52.030
  • how he was actually feeling
  • 00:19:52.030 --> 00:19:54.060
  • because his brain was sick.
  • 00:19:54.060 --> 00:19:55.150
  • - Did he feel like he needed to wear that mask
  • 00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:58.200
  • in front of people?
  • 00:19:58.200 --> 00:19:59.180
  • That everything was okay?
  • 00:19:59.180 --> 00:20:01.040
  • I'm the pastor of the church and everything's all right.
  • 00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:02.200
  • - I'm sure there was some of that, you know?
  • 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:04.180
  • I think it's some of that shame, too.
  • 00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:06.120
  • As a man, too.
  • 00:20:06.120 --> 00:20:07.250
  • And not wanting to show weakness
  • 00:20:07.250 --> 00:20:10.080
  • and not wanting to lose his job.
  • 00:20:10.080 --> 00:20:12.000
  • I think there are a lot of pastors
  • 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.260
  • that struggle with mental health issues
  • 00:20:13.260 --> 00:20:15.190
  • and maybe are struggling with depression and anxiety
  • 00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:18.100
  • or suicidal thoughts
  • 00:20:18.100 --> 00:20:19.270
  • and don't feel like they can tell anybody
  • 00:20:19.270 --> 00:20:21.260
  • because they're afraid they're gonna lose their job.
  • 00:20:21.260 --> 00:20:24.090
  • Any other job, you wouldn't lose our job.
  • 00:20:24.090 --> 00:20:27.070
  • But as a pastor,
  • 00:20:27.070 --> 00:20:28.200
  • people think that if you're just religious enough
  • 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.170
  • or you're close enough to Jesus
  • 00:20:31.170 --> 00:20:33.030
  • or you're walking with God,
  • 00:20:33.030 --> 00:20:34.280
  • that you're not gonna have those thoughts
  • 00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:36.240
  • and you're not gonna be depressed
  • 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.020
  • and you're not gonna be sad and that's a lie.
  • 00:20:38.020 --> 00:20:40.050
  • It's not true.
  • 00:20:40.050 --> 00:20:41.260
  • We have to change the conversation
  • 00:20:41.260 --> 00:20:44.000
  • with mental health and the church.
  • 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.070
  • And we have to find a way to intermingle them
  • 00:20:46.070 --> 00:20:49.150
  • and we have to find a way for people
  • 00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:51.150
  • who are on staff at a church
  • 00:20:51.150 --> 00:20:53.090
  • to feel like they can say how they're really doing,
  • 00:20:53.090 --> 00:20:57.270
  • to feel like they can be honest
  • 00:20:57.270 --> 00:20:59.180
  • and that they can be vulnerable
  • 00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:01.050
  • and that there's no shame, that there's no stigma.
  • 00:21:01.050 --> 00:21:03.280
  • That they can say, you know what?
  • 00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:05.120
  • Like last night, when I was going to sleep,
  • 00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:07.090
  • like I was having thoughts of suicide.
  • 00:21:07.090 --> 00:21:09.210
  • And you know what?
  • 00:21:09.210 --> 00:21:11.060
  • I really didn't wanna get out of bed this morning.
  • 00:21:11.060 --> 00:21:12.060
  • I'm struggling with depression.
  • 00:21:12.060 --> 00:21:14.020
  • And you know what, I think that I might be bipolar.
  • 00:21:14.020 --> 00:21:16.110
  • Like we should be able
  • 00:21:16.110 --> 00:21:17.200
  • to have those conversations in the church.
  • 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:19.270
  • The church should be the safest place
  • 00:21:19.270 --> 00:21:22.070
  • to have those kind of conversations.
  • 00:21:22.070 --> 00:21:23.270
  • And it starts with the staff.
  • 00:21:23.270 --> 00:21:26.110
  • - There's a subtleness that you have
  • 00:21:26.110 --> 00:21:29.010
  • in discussing your husband's passing
  • 00:21:29.010 --> 00:21:32.060
  • and the circumstances surrounding that.
  • 00:21:32.060 --> 00:21:34.110
  • So many things I'd like to know about that,
  • 00:21:36.090 --> 00:21:38.120
  • but I wanna ask you this one thing
  • 00:21:38.120 --> 00:21:41.110
  • 'cause you mentioned it a couple of times
  • 00:21:41.110 --> 00:21:43.040
  • what you regret.
  • 00:21:43.040 --> 00:21:44.070
  • Whether it's a loved one
  • 00:21:46.110 --> 00:21:47.280
  • that's dealing with a mental health illness or not,
  • 00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:51.150
  • that someone passed away and there are regrets.
  • 00:21:52.210 --> 00:21:56.010
  • I wish this wasn't the last thing I said
  • 00:21:56.010 --> 00:21:58.050
  • or I wish I would've called
  • 00:21:58.050 --> 00:22:00.100
  • or we should have taken that vacation.
  • 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:02.220
  • So how have you been able to make peace,
  • 00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:07.260
  • if that's even the right way to say it,
  • 00:22:07.260 --> 00:22:10.030
  • with those regrets?
  • 00:22:10.030 --> 00:22:11.150
  • - I think for me, that the regrets
  • 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.210
  • were in a cycle for a long time.
  • 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:17.120
  • For probably the first three months,
  • 00:22:17.120 --> 00:22:19.180
  • all my mind did was try to save him
  • 00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:22.150
  • and it came up with a million different things
  • 00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:24.110
  • I could've done to save him.
  • 00:22:24.110 --> 00:22:26.140
  • So I sat with the regrets for a long time
  • 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:28.170
  • and I think that anybody that loses somebody
  • 00:22:28.170 --> 00:22:30.240
  • sits with the regrets for a long time.
  • 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.200
  • It's part of the process.
  • 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.180
  • And I think now I've let those go and moved passed them,
  • 00:22:34.180 --> 00:22:39.030
  • but they'll always be there.
  • 00:22:39.030 --> 00:22:40.240
  • I think I'll always have regrets
  • 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.270
  • and I'll always wish he was still here
  • 00:22:42.270 --> 00:22:46.050
  • and I'll always wish that that hadn't happened
  • 00:22:46.050 --> 00:22:49.010
  • until I get to see him again.
  • 00:22:49.010 --> 00:22:51.090
  • And I think that's just part of losing somebody.
  • 00:22:51.090 --> 00:22:54.140
  • You know, even his friends
  • 00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:55.220
  • that live across the world had regrets.
  • 00:22:55.220 --> 00:22:58.020
  • And I think that's just because we love him so much.
  • 00:22:58.020 --> 00:23:01.080
  • We would've done anything to be there for them.
  • 00:23:01.080 --> 00:23:04.050
  • - When you say I let it go, though.
  • 00:23:04.050 --> 00:23:06.280
  • - Yeah, yes. - So I could just imagine
  • 00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:09.010
  • someone watching that's thinking,
  • 00:23:09.010 --> 00:23:10.270
  • I get that, but I don't know how.
  • 00:23:10.270 --> 00:23:12.240
  • - [All] How to let it go.
  • 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.090
  • - So when you say I let it go, how did you do that?
  • 00:23:14.090 --> 00:23:17.230
  • - I think it's learning to do that.
  • 00:23:17.230 --> 00:23:19.060
  • It's having discipline with your thoughts
  • 00:23:19.060 --> 00:23:21.030
  • and discipline with your mind.
  • 00:23:21.030 --> 00:23:22.240
  • And then giving it to God, too, and praying through those
  • 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.270
  • and asking God for peace and asking God for forgiveness
  • 00:23:26.270 --> 00:23:31.270
  • if you feel like you need forgiveness
  • 00:23:33.010 --> 00:23:34.150
  • for different ways you didn't show up.
  • 00:23:34.150 --> 00:23:36.190
  • And asking God to heal those wounds.
  • 00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:39.150
  • Yeah, but counseling.
  • 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.120
  • Counseling has been my saving grace.
  • 00:23:42.120 --> 00:23:44.240
  • - I think the hope that you offer, though,
  • 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.180
  • is to say, especially for the person who's in that cycle
  • 00:23:46.180 --> 00:23:51.010
  • of ruminating on those thoughts
  • 00:23:51.010 --> 00:23:53.060
  • is that learning to let it go is just that:
  • 00:23:53.060 --> 00:23:55.260
  • something you can learn. - Exactly.
  • 00:23:55.260 --> 00:23:57.190
  • - So the feeling of hopelessness
  • 00:23:57.190 --> 00:23:59.140
  • or I'll never get over this,
  • 00:23:59.140 --> 00:24:02.000
  • it's possible to learn that and you did that
  • 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.160
  • with the help of counseling, but it's possible.
  • 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.060
  • - It's possible.
  • 00:24:06.060 --> 00:24:07.130
  • You don't have to sit with regrets
  • 00:24:07.130 --> 00:24:08.220
  • for years and years and years,
  • 00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:10.120
  • and your loved one wouldn't want you to, either.
  • 00:24:10.120 --> 00:24:12.210
  • - Yeah. - They would want you to live.
  • 00:24:12.210 --> 00:24:14.210
  • If you've lost someone you love to suicide,
  • 00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:18.230
  • I just wanna say I'm so sorry.
  • 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.290
  • I am so, so sorry that you're walking through that.
  • 00:24:22.290 --> 00:24:27.130
  • I am so, so sorry that that person
  • 00:24:27.130 --> 00:24:30.000
  • that you deeply, deeply love and cherish
  • 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.090
  • is just stripped away.
  • 00:24:33.090 --> 00:24:34.270
  • I'm so sorry that you have to sit in the pain
  • 00:24:36.090 --> 00:24:39.090
  • that you're sitting in.
  • 00:24:39.090 --> 00:24:41.030
  • And I just want you to know that you're not alone.
  • 00:24:41.030 --> 00:24:43.240
  • We're in it together
  • 00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:46.050
  • and I'm sitting right there beside you in that pain
  • 00:24:46.050 --> 00:24:49.020
  • and my heart goes out to you.
  • 00:24:49.020 --> 00:24:51.110
  • And I'm with you and God's with you
  • 00:24:51.110 --> 00:24:54.060
  • and God sees you and God calls you
  • 00:24:54.060 --> 00:24:57.080
  • precious, honored and loved.
  • 00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:59.060
  • And He wants to carry you through it.
  • 00:25:00.110 --> 00:25:03.040
  • I just wanna pray for you
  • 00:25:03.040 --> 00:25:04.250
  • if that's you and you're sitting in that place.
  • 00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:07.060
  • God, I just thank You that You are the Healer
  • 00:25:07.060 --> 00:25:11.170
  • and that You are the Comforter
  • 00:25:11.170 --> 00:25:13.110
  • and that You see us every second, every minute of every day.
  • 00:25:15.010 --> 00:25:19.200
  • God, when we're at home, by ourself
  • 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.040
  • and no one else is around and we're weeping
  • 00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:26.120
  • and we're grieving and we're missing our loved one,
  • 00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:30.010
  • God I thank You that You're sitting right beside us.
  • 00:25:31.130 --> 00:25:34.160
  • I thank You that You're catching every tear.
  • 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.260
  • I thank You that You care so intimately
  • 00:25:38.030 --> 00:25:40.220
  • about every detail of our life.
  • 00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:43.210
  • God, thank You for carrying us through our pain.
  • 00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:47.010
  • God, I pray for every person who may be watching this today,
  • 00:25:47.010 --> 00:25:51.050
  • God, that has lost a loved one to suicide
  • 00:25:51.050 --> 00:25:53.190
  • or maybe is walking alongside a loved one
  • 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.260
  • who is struggling with mental illness.
  • 00:25:56.260 --> 00:25:59.130
  • Or God, maybe they themselves
  • 00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:01.050
  • are struggling with suicidal thoughts
  • 00:26:01.050 --> 00:26:03.150
  • or maybe they themselves
  • 00:26:03.150 --> 00:26:04.210
  • are sitting in a season of depression.
  • 00:26:04.210 --> 00:26:06.280
  • God, please just show up for them.
  • 00:26:06.280 --> 00:26:09.100
  • God, I pray that You would send people
  • 00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:11.100
  • to surround them in their pain,
  • 00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:14.050
  • that You provide a safe space and a safe community
  • 00:26:14.050 --> 00:26:18.190
  • for them to be open and honest
  • 00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:20.270
  • with how they're really doing, God,
  • 00:26:20.270 --> 00:26:23.010
  • how they're really doing.
  • 00:26:23.010 --> 00:26:24.220
  • God, thank You that we can come to You broken.
  • 00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:27.180
  • God, thank You that we can come to You
  • 00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:29.080
  • with our one shattered life
  • 00:26:29.080 --> 00:26:31.090
  • and that we can hand it over to You
  • 00:26:31.090 --> 00:26:33.180
  • and that You can delicately put back together
  • 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.230
  • all the broken pieces
  • 00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:38.180
  • and that one day, God,
  • 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:42.070
  • although we might not see it now,
  • 00:26:42.070 --> 00:26:44.120
  • that one day, we may step back
  • 00:26:45.120 --> 00:26:48.100
  • and look at our life again and call it beautiful.
  • 00:26:48.100 --> 00:26:51.270
  • And that's only with You, God,
  • 00:26:51.270 --> 00:26:53.110
  • so we thank You for Your restoration power.
  • 00:26:53.110 --> 00:26:55.260
  • We thank You that You never leave us.
  • 00:26:57.100 --> 00:27:00.220
  • We thank You that You carry us through
  • 00:27:01.270 --> 00:27:03.210
  • every single trial that we walk through in this life.
  • 00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:06.220
  • God, we love You so much.
  • 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.170
  • In Your precious name we pray, amen.
  • 00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:12.240
  • - [Laurie] Call the number on your screen
  • 00:27:13.290 --> 00:27:15.060
  • to talk to a prayer partner.
  • 00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:16.240
  • We are here for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
  • 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:21.070
  • We love you, but most importantly, God loves you.
  • 00:27:21.070 --> 00:27:24.020
  • (uplifting music)
  • 00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:26.230
  • Up next on Better Together...
  • 00:27:26.230 --> 00:27:29.000
  • - Grief is different for everybody
  • 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.240
  • and everybody's journey is totally separate
  • 00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:35.050
  • and even your own journey can change
  • 00:27:35.050 --> 00:27:37.250
  • with weeks and months and years
  • 00:27:37.250 --> 00:27:39.160
  • and all of a sudden, you don't even recognize
  • 00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.200
  • the road you're on and how did I get here?
  • 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.030
  • - [Laurie] Join us weekdays and Tuesday nights
  • 00:27:44.030 --> 00:27:46.150
  • for Better Together.
  • 00:27:46.150 --> 00:27:47.160