Hillsong Church: New York | TBN

Hillsong Church: New York

Watch Hillsong Church:  New York
April 16, 2017
51:47

Guest A. R. Bernard | Conversation on Racism and Culture

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Hillsong Church: New York

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  • - Brian Houston: Well, hi
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  • there.
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  • I'm Brian Houston.
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  • And along with my wife, Bobbie,
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  • we're the founders and
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  • global senior pastors of
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  • Hillsong Church.
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  • Bobbie and I are passionate
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  • We've got this heart to see
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  • people engaged in real,
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  • authentic worship,
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  • and see their full potential
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  • come to pass.
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  • We're on mission to see
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  • God's kingdom established here
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  • on earth.
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  • And specifically, in the lives
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  • of you and people like you.
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  • Each weekend there are tens of
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  • thousands of people who attend
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  • Hillsong Church in cities
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  • all around the world.
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  • Well, today's program is coming
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  • to you from our campus in
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  • New York City.
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  • We're so excited about what
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  • God's doing right there in
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  • the heart of the city.
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  • I pray that as you watch this
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  • program and hear biblical
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  • teaching, it will speak
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  • hope right into your soul,
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  • - Carl Lentz: Hi,
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  • everybody watching.
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  • Always this huge thank you
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  • and shout out to everybody who's
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  • taken the time to watch
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  • Hillsong Television,
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  • this Hillsong Channel.
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  • To me, I love it.
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  • I've, you know, flipped through
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  • Christian TV my whole life.
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  • I love it.
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  • I love what God's doin' in it.
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  • And it's a pleasure to have you
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  • with us wherever you're watchin'
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  • this.
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  • And the video slash sermon
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  • slash, hopefully,
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  • slice of heaven,
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  • if it helps you, you're about to
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  • see, it's a little bit different
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  • than normal.
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  • So typically, you're gonna see
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  • me preaching from our campus
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  • live in New York City.
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  • But we wanted to take a very
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  • special interview that I did at
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  • Hillsong Conference this past
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  • year at Barclays Center with a
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  • man named A.R. Bernard.
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  • So if you live in our country,
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  • you're gonna know that
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  • A.R. Bernard pastors a church in
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  • Brooklyn that has changed
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  • the game.
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  • 1987 he started in
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  • Williamsburg, Brooklyn,
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  • and since then has continued to
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  • build what is just a move of
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  • God.
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  • And he is a man of God that
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  • I respect dearly.
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  • And he's had a huge hand in
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  • race relations, politics.
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  • He's really done a great job of
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  • bridging that gap.
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  • And I wanted to sit down with
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  • him and ask him about the
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  • culture and the climate
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  • right now, speaking about
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  • race in particular.
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  • So what you're about to see is
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  • an interview that covers
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  • everything from, "Is some of our
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  • theology racist?
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  • How do we have diversity?
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  • What's the role of a Christian
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  • in politics today?"
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  • Even stuff like, "Is the phrase
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  • 'Black lives matter,' is that
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  • offensive?
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  • Is the phrase 'All lives
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  • matter,' is that offensive?"
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  • Stuff that kinda gets, you know,
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  • very controversial quickly.
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  • And our goal is to produce more
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  • conversations.
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  • So my prayer as you watch this
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  • is that God uses it.
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  • Anytime you feel in your spirit
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  • you wanna jump at somethin',
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  • I'd rather have you sit and
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  • just listen.
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  • And maybe God can use a
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  • conversation like me and
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  • Dr. Bernard had to produce
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  • somethin' in your life, and
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  • maybe you can leave and have a
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  • conversation with somebody that
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  • you thought maybe you previously
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  • disagreed with.
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  • So our goal with you watchin'
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  • this is to just hear from heaven
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  • 'cause our country needs it.
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  • And hopefully, conversations
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  • like this will be the norm,
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  • not the exception.
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  • So enjoy it.
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  • Get your popcorn ready.
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  • And we'll see you after
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  • the message.
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  • - Carl: It's a real honor and
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  • man with us right now.
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  • I would like to say,
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  • "Thank you."
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  • First of all, just for bein'
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  • here.
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  • But more than that, just pavin'
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  • the way in cities like New York
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  • for churches like ours to come
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  • in decades later and you know,
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  • to be able to be in the
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  • slipstream of what you've done
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  • for so long.
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  • And thanks for bein' available.
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  • You have a lot goin' on.
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  • And you're here.
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  • But more than that,
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  • there's been times where I've
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  • called and texted you and just
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  • kinda showed up at your office,
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  • 'cause I'm a weird stalker like
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  • time for, you know, pastors that
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  • don't know what they're doin' to
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  • try to figure it out.
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  • And so we're grateful at
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  • Hillsong New York City to be on
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  • the same team,
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  • tryin' to preach
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  • the same gospel,
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  • and reachin' people.
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  • So thank you for your amazing
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  • work and what you've done in
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  • Brooklyn.
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  • I'd love to just, for those who
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  • don't know you, maybe just a
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  • little bit about your story.
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  • I do know this.
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  • In 1979, right about when I was
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  • born, you planted a church in
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  • Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
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  • And since, from that day to now
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  • - A.R. Bernard: Just a little.
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  • Just a little bit.
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  • First, let me commend you and
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  • what you and your team have
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  • been able to do here
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  • in New York City.
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  • You've connected with a
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  • So important.
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  • You know, especially
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  • Millennial Generation.
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  • 'Cause Millennials are the
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  • largest generation since
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  • my generation, the Baby Boomers.
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  • They represent
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  • 85 to 90 million Americans.
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  • They're the most educated
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  • generation, and the most cause
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  • and purpose driven generation.
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  • So to be able to connect with
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  • them and bring them into the
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  • context of the gospel,
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  • that's incredible.
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  • So I commend you guys for
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  • what you've been able to do in
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  • planting Hillsong here in
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  • [audience applauding]
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  • - Carl: What's New York,
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  • I guess, now, what have been the
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  • biggest changes you've seen from
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  • when you started to what this
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  • city looks like, and even what
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  • churches have done?
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  • Give us a quick glimpse before I
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  • get into some of this, you know,
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  • topic we're gonna cover a
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  • little bit.
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  • What's it been like?
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  • What have you seen, changes,
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  • and people, and the flow of
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  • the city?
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  • - A.R.: Wow, wow, you know,
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  • I've been in New York most of
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  • my life.
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  • Came here in 1957.
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  • Grew up in Bedford-Stuyvesant,
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  • Bushwick, Brooklyn.
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  • And right here.
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  • - Carl: We got some people from
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  • Brooklyn in the house?
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  • Make some--okay, thank you.
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  • That's a real Brooklyn shout
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  • out.
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  • - A.R.: And grew up in the
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  • '60s and early '70s at a time
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  • that was very tumultuous.
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  • The 1960s was a decade of all
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  • types of revolutions going on in
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  • the United States.
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  • Social, political revolutions,
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  • civil rights movement,
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  • religious, music, I mean,
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  • you name it.
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  • There were revolutions for
  • 00:06:27.070 --> 00:06:28.280
  • everyone.
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  • And I was actively involved in
  • 00:06:29.210 --> 00:06:32.130
  • that.
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  • I was part of the desegregation
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  • program.
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  • We were bused from Bed-Stuy and
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  • Bushwick, Brooklyn out to white
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  • schools in Queens to desegregate
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  • those schools.
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  • So that's where I went to
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  • school, and I was part of that
  • 00:06:46.030 --> 00:06:47.290
  • whole experiment there.
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  • And you know, was very socially
  • 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.020
  • conscious at an early age.
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  • Growing up without a father,
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  • it really brought me to a place
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  • of connecting the dots in the
  • 00:07:00.170 --> 00:07:03.000
  • streets where I grew up.
  • 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.000
  • But I became very early a
  • 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.010
  • social activist and involved
  • 00:07:08.010 --> 00:07:10.150
  • with certain social movements
  • 00:07:10.150 --> 00:07:11.160
  • that were taking place here in
  • 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:12.090
  • the nation.
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  • - Carl: Amazing.
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  • Let me ask you this.
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  • So our culture right now,
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  • I think that if anybody turns
  • 00:07:17.130 --> 00:07:19.060
  • on the TV or just,
  • 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:20.260
  • really is just livin', you know,
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  • in our world today,
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  • we've got some problems.
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  • We've got some,
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  • we've got racial problems.
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  • We've got conversations that
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  • people don't wanna have.
  • 00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:31.100
  • In New York City,
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  • sometimes we are hit with stuff
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  • that's front page.
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  • But our whole country right now
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  • is, if we were gonna describe
  • 00:07:37.080 --> 00:07:38.120
  • it, I think everybody would
  • 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:39.210
  • agree that there's
  • 00:07:39.210 --> 00:07:41.060
  • a frustration.
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  • There's a sense of unrest.
  • 00:07:42.070 --> 00:07:44.020
  • There is some topics where
  • 00:07:44.020 --> 00:07:46.030
  • people are tryin' to make it
  • 00:07:46.030 --> 00:07:47.000
  • black and white.
  • 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:48.030
  • And I think it's much deeper
  • 00:07:48.030 --> 00:07:49.070
  • than black and white.
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  • I think racism is a sin issue.
  • 00:07:50.140 --> 00:07:52.260
  • And I think one of the biggest
  • 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:54.100
  • problems is there's no
  • 00:07:54.100 --> 00:07:55.050
  • conversations, you know,
  • 00:07:55.050 --> 00:07:56.250
  • happening.
  • 00:07:56.250 --> 00:07:57.130
  • And so what I wanted to ask you
  • 00:07:57.130 --> 00:07:58.100
  • today was what do you think some
  • 00:07:58.100 --> 00:08:01.050
  • of the factors are that have led
  • 00:08:01.050 --> 00:08:04.000
  • our culture to be where it is
  • 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.030
  • today, in this state, where it
  • 00:08:05.030 --> 00:08:07.070
  • seems more polarized than ever?
  • 00:08:07.070 --> 00:08:09.060
  • Or maybe it's just gettin' more
  • 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:09.250
  • press than ever.
  • 00:08:09.250 --> 00:08:11.030
  • Because I know people have been
  • 00:08:11.030 --> 00:08:12.010
  • gettin' on the wrong side of
  • 00:08:12.010 --> 00:08:13.220
  • that conversation forever.
  • 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:15.080
  • But what do you think about
  • 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:15.290
  • that?
  • 00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:16.140
  • How have we gotten here?
  • 00:08:16.140 --> 00:08:17.250
  • - A.R.: I think something you
  • 00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:19.020
  • just said is important.
  • 00:08:19.020 --> 00:08:20.040
  • It's getting more press.
  • 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.180
  • You know, I grew up in
  • 00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:23.120
  • racial realities.
  • 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:24.060
  • I was chased out of
  • 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:26.020
  • white neighborhoods.
  • 00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:27.080
  • My father was white.
  • 00:08:27.080 --> 00:08:28.100
  • My mother's black.
  • 00:08:28.100 --> 00:08:29.150
  • So I grew up as interracial
  • 00:08:29.150 --> 00:08:31.160
  • child, but never knowing
  • 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:33.190
  • my father.
  • 00:08:33.190 --> 00:08:34.140
  • And having to kind of choose,
  • 00:08:34.140 --> 00:08:37.120
  • you know, where my identity was
  • 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.040
  • going to be.
  • 00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:40.180
  • But America continues to be in
  • 00:08:40.180 --> 00:08:43.170
  • an identity crisis.
  • 00:08:43.170 --> 00:08:45.220
  • When you have those in power
  • 00:08:45.220 --> 00:08:47.220
  • saying, "Okay, we need to let
  • 00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:49.140
  • the Syrian refugees in because
  • 00:08:49.140 --> 00:08:52.130
  • this is who we are as America,"
  • 00:08:52.130 --> 00:08:54.230
  • and you have another group
  • 00:08:54.230 --> 00:08:55.110
  • saying, "We need to keep
  • 00:08:55.110 --> 00:08:56.200
  • them out because this is
  • 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.050
  • who we are as America,"
  • 00:08:58.050 --> 00:09:00.030
  • it begs the question.
  • 00:09:00.030 --> 00:09:00.270
  • Who are we?
  • 00:09:00.270 --> 00:09:02.040
  • So we are in that crisis of
  • 00:09:02.060 --> 00:09:05.060
  • identity, self-concept,
  • 00:09:05.060 --> 00:09:07.150
  • meaning, sense of purpose.
  • 00:09:07.150 --> 00:09:09.230
  • And we're dealing with issues
  • 00:09:09.230 --> 00:09:12.190
  • that have not been resolved
  • 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:15.220
  • because they haven't been faced
  • 00:09:15.220 --> 00:09:18.050
  • by America as a nation.
  • 00:09:18.050 --> 00:09:20.200
  • You know, there's a powerful
  • 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:21.130
  • passage in Proverbs 13:12,
  • 00:09:21.130 --> 00:09:24.130
  • it says: "Hope deferred makes
  • 00:09:24.250 --> 00:09:27.250
  • the heart sick."
  • 00:09:27.250 --> 00:09:30.040
  • So when you see shootings,
  • 00:09:30.220 --> 00:09:33.220
  • which I don't agree with,
  • 00:09:33.220 --> 00:09:35.240
  • whether it's in Dallas,
  • 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.090
  • shooting police officers,
  • 00:09:37.090 --> 00:09:39.060
  • whether it's police officers
  • 00:09:39.060 --> 00:09:42.010
  • assaulting citizens,
  • 00:09:42.010 --> 00:09:44.040
  • like in Baton Rouge,
  • 00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:45.230
  • like in Minnesota,
  • 00:09:45.230 --> 00:09:48.130
  • and the list goes on,
  • 00:09:48.130 --> 00:09:49.170
  • these are symptoms of a hope
  • 00:09:50.290 --> 00:09:53.290
  • that, especially people of color
  • 00:09:53.290 --> 00:09:56.100
  • have carried for a long time in
  • 00:09:56.100 --> 00:09:58.000
  • this country.
  • 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.060
  • Interesting, the passage there,
  • 00:09:59.060 --> 00:10:01.100
  • "Hope deferred makes the heart
  • 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:02.150
  • sick," the word "sick" there is
  • 00:10:02.150 --> 00:10:05.010
  • really expressed in the
  • 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.120
  • Hebrew language as a woman
  • 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.040
  • trying to give birth.
  • 00:10:11.040 --> 00:10:13.100
  • She's in travail.
  • 00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:15.000
  • The contractions are very close
  • 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.130
  • together, and she's tryin' to
  • 00:10:17.130 --> 00:10:19.080
  • have this baby, but the baby
  • 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:21.080
  • just won't come out.
  • 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:23.070
  • So it really expresses
  • 00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:24.160
  • deeply where we are in
  • 00:10:24.160 --> 00:10:26.120
  • American society.
  • 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:27.070
  • So when you see someone like
  • 00:10:27.070 --> 00:10:29.110
  • Micah Johnson, who was the one
  • 00:10:29.110 --> 00:10:31.190
  • who perpetrated that shooting
  • 00:10:31.190 --> 00:10:33.060
  • against the police officers,
  • 00:10:33.060 --> 00:10:34.140
  • which, again, I disagree with
  • 00:10:34.140 --> 00:10:36.080
  • violence being the answer.
  • 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:38.180
  • But it came from a very deep and
  • 00:10:38.270 --> 00:10:41.270
  • profound place of spiritual,
  • 00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:45.220
  • moral, ethical, frustration
  • 00:10:47.270 --> 00:10:50.270
  • within him in trying to make
  • 00:10:50.270 --> 00:10:52.290
  • sense of what's going on in
  • 00:10:52.290 --> 00:10:55.010
  • [audience applauding]
  • 00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:01.140
  • - Carl: You say really profound
  • 00:11:01.140 --> 00:11:03.070
  • things like it's normal.
  • 00:11:03.070 --> 00:11:04.290
  • - A.R.: So the Word, he and
  • 00:11:07.020 --> 00:11:08.220
  • the Word becoming one,
  • 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:10.200
  • changed everything for me.
  • 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.020
  • So now Jesus became
  • 00:11:12.020 --> 00:11:13.020
  • the Scripture.
  • 00:11:13.020 --> 00:11:14.140
  • And the Word of God came alive,
  • 00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:16.250
  • and I fell in love.
  • 00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:18.080
  • And it's not the institution of
  • 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:20.050
  • Christianity that saved me.
  • 00:11:20.050 --> 00:11:21.140
  • It's the person of Christ.
  • 00:11:21.140 --> 00:11:23.050
  • - Carl: You would have police
  • 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.110
  • officers in your church.
  • 00:11:30.110 --> 00:11:31.290
  • And you would also have people
  • 00:11:31.290 --> 00:11:33.220
  • who are frustrated with what
  • 00:11:33.220 --> 00:11:35.040
  • they would sometimes call,
  • 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:36.040
  • "The establishment," or
  • 00:11:36.040 --> 00:11:38.140
  • basically both people on the
  • 00:11:38.140 --> 00:11:39.060
  • sides of the protest line.
  • 00:11:39.060 --> 00:11:40.200
  • And you've done it well for
  • 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:41.170
  • so long.
  • 00:11:41.170 --> 00:11:42.070
  • I know there's a lot of church
  • 00:11:42.070 --> 00:11:43.000
  • leaders in here, or Christians
  • 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:44.210
  • that love their church,
  • 00:11:44.210 --> 00:11:45.250
  • but might even find themselves
  • 00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:47.070
  • maybe in the same aisle with
  • 00:11:47.070 --> 00:11:48.290
  • somebody who believes
  • 00:11:48.290 --> 00:11:49.220
  • something polar opposite.
  • 00:11:49.220 --> 00:11:51.240
  • and somehow keep unity?
  • 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:56.210
  • How have you done it for so
  • 00:11:56.210 --> 00:11:57.120
  • long?
  • 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:58.060
  • And what ideas can we steal
  • 00:11:58.060 --> 00:12:00.060
  • right now to be able to at least
  • 00:12:00.060 --> 00:12:02.060
  • let people know, "We might not
  • 00:12:02.060 --> 00:12:04.150
  • understand each other right now,
  • 00:12:04.150 --> 00:12:06.020
  • and there might be some tension,
  • 00:12:06.020 --> 00:12:07.090
  • and we might even stand on a
  • 00:12:07.090 --> 00:12:08.260
  • different political side."
  • 00:12:08.260 --> 00:12:11.060
  • But how do we navigate it as
  • 00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:12.100
  • leaders?
  • 00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:13.000
  • How, as a Christian, can you say
  • 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:15.120
  • that you're my brother and
  • 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:16.210
  • disagree so heavily on certain
  • 00:12:16.210 --> 00:12:18.220
  • matters?
  • 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:19.080
  • And how do we move forward with
  • 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:20.080
  • it?
  • 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:20.230
  • That's 17 questions in 1,
  • 00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:21.280
  • - A.R.: Well, you know, look,
  • 00:12:24.270 --> 00:12:26.000
  • diversity is strength.
  • 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.030
  • The way God designed the
  • 00:12:28.030 --> 00:12:29.000
  • universe, every ecosystem needs
  • 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.120
  • progress.
  • 00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:37.010
  • Remove that diversity and that
  • 00:12:37.010 --> 00:12:38.180
  • ecosystem begins to break down.
  • 00:12:38.180 --> 00:12:41.150
  • So what is true in every world,
  • 00:12:41.150 --> 00:12:44.060
  • every kingdom, it is especially
  • 00:12:44.060 --> 00:12:45.210
  • true amongst human beings.
  • 00:12:45.210 --> 00:12:47.230
  • Diversity's our strength.
  • 00:12:47.230 --> 00:12:49.080
  • It's not our adversary.
  • 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.130
  • It's not a negative.
  • 00:12:51.130 --> 00:12:52.130
  • But we have to work beyond the
  • 00:12:52.130 --> 00:12:55.030
  • fears of not knowing each other,
  • 00:12:55.030 --> 00:12:57.260
  • and engage in conversations like
  • 00:12:57.260 --> 00:12:59.120
  • this that are more public.
  • 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.130
  • Because unfortunately, too many
  • 00:13:01.130 --> 00:13:02.170
  • of these conversations take
  • 00:13:02.170 --> 00:13:03.230
  • place privately, you see?
  • 00:13:03.230 --> 00:13:06.170
  • And people are afraid to say
  • 00:13:07.020 --> 00:13:10.020
  • what they are really thinking
  • 00:13:10.020 --> 00:13:11.180
  • and feeling, whether it comes
  • 00:13:11.180 --> 00:13:12.240
  • out of ignorance or knowledge.
  • 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.110
  • They're afraid to say it because
  • 00:13:15.110 --> 00:13:16.130
  • of the backlash that might come.
  • 00:13:16.130 --> 00:13:19.020
  • So the elephant continues to sit
  • 00:13:19.020 --> 00:13:21.020
  • in the room and nobody wants to
  • 00:13:21.020 --> 00:13:23.050
  • talk about it.
  • 00:13:23.050 --> 00:13:25.120
  • But you know, there are people
  • 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:26.120
  • like me, who love to talk about
  • 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:27.250
  • it and put it out there.
  • 00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:29.270
  • Look, I got saved, a guy named
  • 00:13:29.270 --> 00:13:32.120
  • Nicky Cruz brought me to
  • 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:33.220
  • the Lord.
  • 00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:35.050
  • He's a guy, you know,
  • 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:38.190
  • he's a former head of the
  • 00:13:38.190 --> 00:13:39.240
  • Mau Mau gangs.
  • 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.090
  • And I was invited to a meeting
  • 00:13:41.090 --> 00:13:43.220
  • where he was sharing his story.
  • 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:45.260
  • At that time, I had been 5 years
  • 00:13:45.260 --> 00:13:48.030
  • in the Nation of Islam as
  • 00:13:48.030 --> 00:13:49.260
  • a black Muslim.
  • 00:13:49.260 --> 00:13:51.110
  • So converting from such
  • 00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:53.260
  • a radical organization,
  • 00:13:53.260 --> 00:13:55.130
  • under not Louis Farrakhan
  • 00:13:55.130 --> 00:13:57.000
  • but Elijah Muhammad,
  • 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.170
  • going into Christianity,
  • 00:13:59.170 --> 00:14:00.200
  • there were a lot of issues that
  • 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.000
  • had to be resolved for me.
  • 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.120
  • 'Cause remember, for me, from
  • 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:05.260
  • that perspective, especially in
  • 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:10.100
  • the context of black identity,
  • 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:12.020
  • Christianity was the religion
  • 00:14:12.020 --> 00:14:13.060
  • of the oppressor.
  • 00:14:13.060 --> 00:14:14.170
  • So how can the religion of
  • 00:14:14.290 --> 00:14:17.290
  • imperialism and colonization,
  • 00:14:17.290 --> 00:14:20.120
  • all right, become my religion,
  • 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:22.220
  • and this Jesus become my Savior?
  • 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:25.050
  • So God had to deal with me
  • 00:14:25.050 --> 00:14:27.010
  • supernaturally.
  • 00:14:27.010 --> 00:14:27.220
  • So that night, after Nicky was,
  • 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:30.220
  • you know, sharing his story,
  • 00:14:30.220 --> 00:14:31.240
  • I could hardly understand.
  • 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.280
  • His English is, his, Spanglish
  • 00:14:33.280 --> 00:14:36.220
  • is what he spoke in, you know,
  • 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:38.130
  • so.
  • 00:14:38.130 --> 00:14:39.290
  • But he said something about
  • 00:14:39.290 --> 00:14:40.180
  • Janis Joplin, drugs,
  • 00:14:40.180 --> 00:14:42.030
  • somethin' like that.
  • 00:14:42.030 --> 00:14:43.000
  • But he said, "Do you wanna
  • 00:14:44.090 --> 00:14:47.090
  • receive Jesus?"
  • 00:14:47.090 --> 00:14:49.040
  • And man, I had that moment.
  • 00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:51.170
  • This was my epiphany.
  • 00:14:51.170 --> 00:14:52.260
  • I heard two things.
  • 00:14:52.260 --> 00:14:53.200
  • Number one, "I'm the God that
  • 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:54.240
  • you're looking for."
  • 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.290
  • I intuitively knew that it was
  • 00:14:55.290 --> 00:14:57.200
  • Jesus, right?
  • 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.070
  • 'Cause I had been searching.
  • 00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:00.130
  • Regardless of the fact that I
  • 00:15:00.130 --> 00:15:01.070
  • was in the Nation, you know,
  • 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:03.120
  • when I got into martial arts,
  • 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.020
  • that led me into
  • 00:15:05.020 --> 00:15:06.120
  • Eastern philosophies.
  • 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:07.190
  • - Carl: You know martial arts
  • 00:15:07.190 --> 00:15:08.090
  • on top of everything else?
  • 00:15:08.090 --> 00:15:10.010
  • - A.R.: So it led me into
  • 00:15:10.010 --> 00:15:12.070
  • Eastern philosophies--
  • 00:15:12.070 --> 00:15:13.280
  • - Carl: Amazing.
  • 00:15:13.280 --> 00:15:15.180
  • - A.R.: And it led me into
  • 00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:17.190
  • Eastern philosophy.
  • 00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:18.160
  • So I was still searching,
  • 00:15:18.260 --> 00:15:21.260
  • even though I was in a context
  • 00:15:21.260 --> 00:15:23.150
  • that really had to do with
  • 00:15:23.150 --> 00:15:25.110
  • identification, order, strength,
  • 00:15:25.110 --> 00:15:27.240
  • discipline, all those things
  • 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.000
  • that the Nation provided,
  • 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.040
  • especially for me as a young man
  • 00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:31.280
  • growing up in this culture
  • 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:33.170
  • without a father.
  • 00:15:33.170 --> 00:15:35.240
  • But I knew somehow, intuitively,
  • 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.030
  • that God, reality, and truth
  • 00:15:38.030 --> 00:15:39.140
  • were synonymous.
  • 00:15:39.140 --> 00:15:40.160
  • So if I truly found one,
  • 00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:41.200
  • the other two would be present.
  • 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.250
  • I didn't find the other two in
  • 00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:46.090
  • the Nation of Islam.
  • 00:15:46.090 --> 00:15:48.190
  • So that night I heard, "I'm the
  • 00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:51.020
  • God that you're looking for."
  • 00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:52.250
  • I knew it was Jesus.
  • 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:54.170
  • But second thing that I heard,
  • 00:15:54.170 --> 00:15:56.030
  • which is most important,
  • 00:15:56.030 --> 00:15:57.170
  • "I am my Word.
  • 00:15:57.170 --> 00:15:59.000
  • I and my Word are one."
  • 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.140
  • See, and that was important
  • 00:16:01.140 --> 00:16:03.100
  • because the Jesus I knew were
  • 00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:05.250
  • the Jesus in the picture,
  • 00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:07.060
  • in the movies.
  • 00:16:07.060 --> 00:16:08.120
  • You know, long-haired,
  • 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:10.010
  • blue-eyed guy, white guy.
  • 00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:11.180
  • - Carl: The Swiss Jesus, yeah.
  • 00:16:11.180 --> 00:16:14.000
  • - A.R.: You know, so how do I
  • 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.010
  • relate to this Jesus?
  • 00:16:15.010 --> 00:16:17.150
  • Until I realized, you know,
  • 00:16:17.150 --> 00:16:19.170
  • that if you travel to India,
  • 00:16:19.170 --> 00:16:21.110
  • he looks Indian.
  • 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:22.090
  • If you travel to Africa, if you
  • 00:16:22.090 --> 00:16:24.180
  • travel downtown Brooklyn,
  • 00:16:24.180 --> 00:16:25.140
  • Fulton Street,
  • 00:16:25.140 --> 00:16:26.040
  • he's got a white afro.
  • 00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:28.130
  • You know, it depends on where
  • 00:16:28.130 --> 00:16:29.050
  • you go the image of Jesus that
  • 00:16:29.050 --> 00:16:30.230
  • you'd find.
  • 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:31.150
  • So the Word, he and the Word
  • 00:16:31.150 --> 00:16:33.290
  • becoming one changed everything
  • 00:16:33.290 --> 00:16:35.250
  • for me.
  • 00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:36.200
  • So now Jesus became
  • 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:37.200
  • the Scripture.
  • 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.010
  • And the Word of God came alive,
  • 00:16:39.010 --> 00:16:41.140
  • and I fell in love.
  • 00:16:41.140 --> 00:16:42.270
  • And it's not the institution of
  • 00:16:42.270 --> 00:16:44.250
  • Christianity that saved me.
  • 00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:46.050
  • It's the person of Christ.
  • 00:16:46.050 --> 00:16:48.070
  • And there's a difference.
  • 00:16:48.070 --> 00:16:50.130
  • - Carl: That's amazing.
  • 00:16:50.130 --> 00:16:51.040
  • I think one of the frustrations,
  • 00:16:51.040 --> 00:16:54.030
  • I think, is trying to get people
  • 00:16:54.030 --> 00:16:55.110
  • who are maybe in the majority,
  • 00:16:55.110 --> 00:16:57.070
  • which we could just use white
  • 00:16:57.070 --> 00:16:58.080
  • people right now to make it
  • 00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.140
  • broad, to understand what you
  • 00:16:59.180 --> 00:17:02.200
  • just said.
  • 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:03.160
  • Because there's some people
  • 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:04.030
  • who have never thought, like,
  • 00:17:04.030 --> 00:17:05.130
  • and I have a lot of friends that
  • 00:17:05.130 --> 00:17:06.050
  • are of different races.
  • 00:17:06.050 --> 00:17:07.090
  • And they would say things like,
  • 00:17:07.090 --> 00:17:08.270
  • you know, "That's a white man's
  • 00:17:08.270 --> 00:17:09.200
  • God."
  • 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.130
  • Or that, like, what you just
  • 00:17:10.130 --> 00:17:12.100
  • said, "That's the religion of
  • 00:17:12.100 --> 00:17:13.090
  • the oppressor."
  • 00:17:13.090 --> 00:17:14.170
  • Would you believe that we have a
  • 00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:17.060
  • genuine systematic racism issue
  • 00:17:17.100 --> 00:17:20.100
  • in America?
  • 00:17:20.100 --> 00:17:21.060
  • - A.R.: Oh, absolutely.
  • 00:17:21.060 --> 00:17:22.140
  • Understand, let's take it above
  • 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:25.060
  • racism.
  • 00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:26.100
  • Because essentially, racism is a
  • 00:17:26.100 --> 00:17:28.260
  • tool of the power elite to
  • 00:17:28.260 --> 00:17:31.080
  • reinforce classism.
  • 00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:33.120
  • - Carl: Say that again for
  • 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:34.270
  • those of us that are ADD.
  • 00:17:34.270 --> 00:17:36.030
  • Get your Twitter ready.
  • 00:17:36.030 --> 00:17:37.100
  • Pretend you said it.
  • 00:17:37.100 --> 00:17:38.220
  • Be the smartest person at lunch.
  • 00:17:39.110 --> 00:17:42.110
  • - A.R.: Okay.
  • 00:17:42.110 --> 00:17:43.140
  • [laughing]
  • 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:44.240
  • Racism is a tool used by
  • 00:17:44.270 --> 00:17:47.270
  • the power elite to reinforce
  • 00:17:47.270 --> 00:17:49.200
  • classism.
  • 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.040
  • And it's really classism that
  • 00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:53.100
  • divides us.
  • 00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:54.200
  • You understand?
  • 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:55.240
  • It's about who's got wealth,
  • 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.060
  • who's got power.
  • 00:17:57.060 --> 00:17:58.070
  • So Democrat, Republican,
  • 00:17:58.070 --> 00:18:00.100
  • liberal, conservative, left,
  • 00:18:00.100 --> 00:18:02.140
  • right, doesn't matter.
  • 00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:03.230
  • Because whatever the cause that
  • 00:18:03.230 --> 00:18:05.210
  • they take up to get into power,
  • 00:18:05.210 --> 00:18:07.170
  • once they're in power, it's
  • 00:18:07.170 --> 00:18:08.220
  • about maintaining that power,
  • 00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.170
  • preserving that power,
  • 00:18:10.170 --> 00:18:11.200
  • and maintaining the status quo.
  • 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.240
  • [audience applauding]
  • 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.110
  • So we need interim revolutions,
  • 00:18:15.210 --> 00:18:18.210
  • interim movements, in order to
  • 00:18:18.210 --> 00:18:20.190
  • shake up that status quo and
  • 00:18:20.190 --> 00:18:23.020
  • hold them beyond stability and
  • 00:18:23.020 --> 00:18:24.270
  • order to deal with issues of
  • 00:18:24.270 --> 00:18:26.180
  • justice and equity, which is
  • 00:18:26.180 --> 00:18:28.050
  • exactly what Jesus spoke to
  • 00:18:28.050 --> 00:18:29.220
  • the status quo when he said,
  • 00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:31.060
  • "You pay tithes.
  • 00:18:31.060 --> 00:18:32.230
  • You do all of the religious
  • 00:18:32.230 --> 00:18:33.230
  • things.
  • 00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:34.280
  • But you have failed in the area
  • 00:18:34.280 --> 00:18:36.290
  • - Carl: Let me ask you this.
  • 00:18:41.170 --> 00:18:42.050
  • I think sometimes tryin' to get
  • 00:18:42.050 --> 00:18:44.180
  • people to understand you can be
  • 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:46.120
  • passionate about two different
  • 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:48.080
  • issues at the same time.
  • 00:18:48.080 --> 00:18:50.100
  • For instance, you can be
  • 00:18:50.100 --> 00:18:51.100
  • passionate against injustice,
  • 00:18:51.100 --> 00:18:53.290
  • and still love our police force.
  • 00:18:53.290 --> 00:18:56.050
  • For some people, their mind is
  • 00:18:56.050 --> 00:18:57.050
  • blown at this thought.
  • 00:18:57.050 --> 00:18:59.020
  • And a lot of people who have
  • 00:18:59.020 --> 00:19:01.210
  • never felt that struggle,
  • 00:19:01.210 --> 00:19:03.000
  • for instance, with, right now,
  • 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.210
  • Black Lives Matter,
  • 00:19:04.210 --> 00:19:05.250
  • it's a big slogan.
  • 00:19:05.250 --> 00:19:06.220
  • It's a big movement.
  • 00:19:06.220 --> 00:19:07.220
  • And you'll hear typically
  • 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:09.020
  • white people say, "Well, all
  • 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:10.100
  • lives matter."
  • 00:19:10.100 --> 00:19:11.120
  • And they can't fathom why that
  • 00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:12.220
  • could frustrate people.
  • 00:19:12.220 --> 00:19:14.040
  • And immediately, you wanna sit
  • 00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:15.110
  • with each person and say,
  • 00:19:15.110 --> 00:19:16.050
  • "We get that all lives matter.
  • 00:19:16.050 --> 00:19:17.150
  • But white people, right now, are
  • 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:19.190
  • not in danger every time they
  • 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:21.190
  • get pulled over."
  • 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:22.250
  • Saying something like that,
  • 00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:25.040
  • and we have police officers here
  • 00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:27.270
  • that are amazing.
  • 00:19:27.270 --> 00:19:29.050
  • And you know, I would even say
  • 00:19:29.050 --> 00:19:31.010
  • the majority of police officers
  • 00:19:31.010 --> 00:19:32.130
  • I've ever known are honorable,
  • 00:19:32.130 --> 00:19:33.290
  • amazing men and women who
  • 00:19:33.290 --> 00:19:35.140
  • lay down their lives.
  • 00:19:35.140 --> 00:19:37.100
  • But that doesn't absolve us of
  • 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.240
  • the conversation to be able to
  • 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.020
  • say, "It's okay to be able to
  • 00:19:42.020 --> 00:19:43.270
  • take a moment."
  • 00:19:43.270 --> 00:19:45.070
  • And this is when the word
  • 00:19:45.070 --> 00:19:46.050
  • "empathy" comes in,
  • 00:19:46.050 --> 00:19:47.030
  • which I'd like to ask you about.
  • 00:19:47.030 --> 00:19:48.080
  • But for me to sit down with
  • 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:49.150
  • maybe a brother of mine who's
  • 00:19:49.150 --> 00:19:50.280
  • African American and say,
  • 00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:52.230
  • "I get it right now."
  • 00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:53.220
  • We're not gonna go to,
  • 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:54.140
  • "All Lives Matter."
  • 00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:55.140
  • That's the equivalent to,
  • 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:56.080
  • you know, walking up to a
  • 00:19:56.080 --> 00:19:58.050
  • breast cancer marathon and
  • 00:19:58.050 --> 00:19:59.110
  • sayin', "Hey, y'all know
  • 00:19:59.110 --> 00:20:00.030
  • diabetes is a problem too."
  • 00:20:00.030 --> 00:20:02.080
  • And people are like,
  • 00:20:02.080 --> 00:20:04.250
  • "Well, we're not marchin' for
  • 00:20:04.250 --> 00:20:05.150
  • diabetes right now."
  • 00:20:05.150 --> 00:20:07.000
  • - A.R.: Not this week, yeah.
  • 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:08.170
  • - Carl: I wonder--
  • 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:10.070
  • I wonder if there's a place we
  • 00:20:15.110 --> 00:20:16.120
  • can get to as Christians where
  • 00:20:16.120 --> 00:20:18.110
  • we're slower to give our point
  • 00:20:18.110 --> 00:20:20.190
  • of view and quicker to hear the
  • 00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:23.050
  • pain of somebody else.
  • 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:27.170
  • Because I think that's
  • 00:20:27.170 --> 00:20:28.070
  • the model.
  • 00:20:28.070 --> 00:20:29.060
  • - A.R.: Yeah.
  • 00:20:29.060 --> 00:20:29.210
  • You're quoting out of the book
  • 00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:30.190
  • of James: "Be slow to speak,
  • 00:20:30.190 --> 00:20:32.080
  • swift to hear."
  • 00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:33.180
  • And until you sit down and hear
  • 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.090
  • someone else's story, you're not
  • 00:20:35.090 --> 00:20:37.090
  • even qualified to give
  • 00:20:37.090 --> 00:20:38.210
  • judgment on their situation,
  • 00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:40.200
  • - Carl: If this kinda thing
  • 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:43.080
  • bothers you, you're exactly the
  • 00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:45.050
  • type of person that needs to be
  • 00:20:45.050 --> 00:20:46.080
  • involved in the conversation.
  • 00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:47.230
  • Because by being bothered,
  • 00:20:47.230 --> 00:20:49.270
  • I think that's the first step to
  • 00:20:49.270 --> 00:20:51.130
  • at least acknowledging that
  • 00:20:51.130 --> 00:20:53.180
  • there's an issue.
  • 00:20:53.180 --> 00:20:54.210
  • And I don't think the point of
  • 00:20:54.210 --> 00:20:55.110
  • any of these conversations is
  • 00:20:55.110 --> 00:20:56.160
  • necessarily to convince anyone.
  • 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.160
  • But even this statement right
  • 00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:59.160
  • now, whether we agree or
  • 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:00.190
  • disagree, conversation is
  • 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:02.260
  • - Carl: Empathy to me is a big
  • 00:21:08.150 --> 00:21:09.100
  • deal right now because it just
  • 00:21:09.100 --> 00:21:10.240
  • means, you know, if you look at
  • 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.230
  • the news and you see a tragedy,
  • 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:14.120
  • and the first thing you do is
  • 00:21:14.120 --> 00:21:15.120
  • think of who you wanna tell your
  • 00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:16.200
  • view to, I think that is a
  • 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.170
  • symptom of a society that is in
  • 00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:20.200
  • rot, literally.
  • 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.140
  • Because if I turn on the TV
  • 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:23.120
  • right now and I see somethin',
  • 00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:24.220
  • the last thing I'm doin' is
  • 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:26.190
  • wondering who's at fault.
  • 00:21:26.190 --> 00:21:27.270
  • You know, I think that the Bible
  • 00:21:27.270 --> 00:21:28.240
  • says to, "Party with those who
  • 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.020
  • party.
  • 00:21:30.020 --> 00:21:31.050
  • Mourn with those who mourn."
  • 00:21:31.050 --> 00:21:32.040
  • That's the New York City
  • 00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:32.210
  • remix edition.
  • 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:33.190
  • - A.R.: "Party with those who
  • 00:21:33.190 --> 00:21:34.070
  • party," okay.
  • 00:21:34.070 --> 00:21:35.270
  • - Carl: And I think right now
  • 00:21:35.270 --> 00:21:37.060
  • opportunities as the church to
  • 00:21:39.210 --> 00:21:41.230
  • be able to go alongside people
  • 00:21:41.230 --> 00:21:42.280
  • and say, "We can talk about
  • 00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:43.200
  • politics down the road.
  • 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.060
  • We can talk about what you think
  • 00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:46.050
  • might be the issue right now.
  • 00:21:46.050 --> 00:21:47.090
  • But there is tears right now.
  • 00:21:47.090 --> 00:21:48.270
  • So I'm gonna help you dry them.
  • 00:21:48.270 --> 00:21:50.100
  • And I'm gonna hold you.
  • 00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:51.050
  • I'm gonna be with you."
  • 00:21:51.050 --> 00:21:51.290
  • And I think what can you tell,
  • 00:21:51.290 --> 00:21:54.210
  • let's just go, let's, we'll keep
  • 00:21:54.210 --> 00:21:55.250
  • it black and white because it
  • 00:21:55.250 --> 00:21:56.220
  • seems apt right now.
  • 00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:58.100
  • By the way, your shoes are
  • 00:21:58.100 --> 00:21:59.010
  • amazingly fresh and clean.
  • 00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:00.170
  • I don't know how you keep 'em
  • 00:22:00.170 --> 00:22:01.070
  • like that in New York.
  • 00:22:01.070 --> 00:22:02.160
  • Holler at a player if you see
  • 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:03.240
  • If you were gonna talk to,
  • 00:22:09.060 --> 00:22:11.020
  • for instance, you know,
  • 00:22:11.020 --> 00:22:13.150
  • a group of white people,
  • 00:22:13.150 --> 00:22:15.070
  • and you were gonna say, "Here's
  • 00:22:15.070 --> 00:22:16.070
  • what I want you to understand
  • 00:22:16.070 --> 00:22:17.270
  • about the black struggle."
  • 00:22:17.270 --> 00:22:19.070
  • Because you can't know it.
  • 00:22:19.070 --> 00:22:20.180
  • That's almost more frustrating,
  • 00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:21.260
  • is when someone who can never
  • 00:22:21.260 --> 00:22:22.220
  • know your struggle, you know,
  • 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:24.230
  • tries to act like they can.
  • 00:22:24.230 --> 00:22:25.270
  • I know in my life I, there's no
  • 00:22:25.270 --> 00:22:27.180
  • way I can know what you've been
  • 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:28.180
  • through.
  • 00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:29.190
  • But I can sit here and have you
  • 00:22:29.190 --> 00:22:31.060
  • tell me what it's been like so
  • 00:22:31.060 --> 00:22:33.100
  • at least my worldview, at worst,
  • 00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:35.290
  • all I do is get smarter.
  • 00:22:35.290 --> 00:22:38.090
  • At best, my life changes.
  • 00:22:38.090 --> 00:22:40.010
  • - A.R.: Yeah, and it should
  • 00:22:40.010 --> 00:22:40.220
  • change.
  • 00:22:40.220 --> 00:22:41.100
  • - Carl: What can we help people
  • 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:42.130
  • understand?
  • 00:22:42.130 --> 00:22:43.050
  • Like, for instance, some of our
  • 00:22:43.050 --> 00:22:44.170
  • churches, we say we're diverse
  • 00:22:44.170 --> 00:22:46.250
  • and we are.
  • 00:22:46.250 --> 00:22:47.160
  • But sometimes, you know, it's
  • 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.170
  • not as diverse as we want it
  • 00:22:49.170 --> 00:22:50.190
  • to be.
  • 00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:51.140
  • And what's it like?
  • 00:22:51.140 --> 00:22:53.170
  • Help us understand as we kinda
  • 00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:55.120
  • navigate these murky waters.
  • 00:22:55.120 --> 00:22:57.070
  • What can we know about the
  • 00:22:57.070 --> 00:22:58.060
  • struggle that other minority
  • 00:22:58.060 --> 00:23:00.120
  • groups have gone through if
  • 00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:01.280
  • we've never ever walked a day in
  • 00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:03.190
  • that life?
  • 00:23:03.190 --> 00:23:05.030
  • - A.R.: Okay, so that's
  • 00:23:05.030 --> 00:23:05.200
  • four questions.
  • 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.140
  • All right--
  • 00:23:08.140 --> 00:23:08.290
  • - Carl: Well, we go back a long
  • 00:23:08.290 --> 00:23:09.180
  • ways.
  • 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:09.290
  • I'm gettin' our, you know,
  • 00:23:09.290 --> 00:23:11.060
  • our time's worth here, sir.
  • 00:23:11.060 --> 00:23:12.140
  • We didn't bring you out here to
  • 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:13.050
  • talk about--go ahead.
  • 00:23:13.050 --> 00:23:15.030
  • - A.R.: First of all, church is
  • 00:23:16.060 --> 00:23:19.060
  • contextual.
  • 00:23:19.060 --> 00:23:19.280
  • All ministry's contextual.
  • 00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:21.250
  • Ministry is based upon the
  • 00:23:21.250 --> 00:23:22.210
  • context that you're in.
  • 00:23:22.210 --> 00:23:24.090
  • If you're pastoring a church in
  • 00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:26.110
  • the corn fields of Botkins, Ohio
  • 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.000
  • that is predominantly white,
  • 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.230
  • okay, you can pray for diversity
  • 00:23:33.020 --> 00:23:36.020
  • all you want.
  • 00:23:36.020 --> 00:23:37.240
  • Are you gonna bus some
  • 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:38.200
  • black folks in?
  • 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:39.200
  • Are you gonna bus some Latinos
  • 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:40.270
  • in so that you can have
  • 00:23:40.270 --> 00:23:42.200
  • diversity?
  • 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:43.260
  • - Carl: Well said.
  • 00:23:43.260 --> 00:23:44.180
  • - A.R.: No, ministry is
  • 00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:45.030
  • contextual.
  • 00:23:45.030 --> 00:23:45.290
  • If you're context is an
  • 00:23:45.290 --> 00:23:48.190
  • all-white community or a
  • 00:23:48.190 --> 00:23:49.150
  • predominantly white community,
  • 00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:51.000
  • why should you feel guilty
  • 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.210
  • because you don't have more
  • 00:23:52.210 --> 00:23:53.080
  • people of color?
  • 00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:54.140
  • If they don't live there,
  • 00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:55.130
  • they don't live there.
  • 00:23:55.130 --> 00:23:56.140
  • - Carl: You should only be
  • 00:23:56.140 --> 00:23:57.010
  • clappin' if you live in that
  • 00:23:57.010 --> 00:23:57.250
  • city, by the way.
  • 00:23:57.270 --> 00:24:00.290
  • - A.R.: So we have to be,
  • 00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:01.260
  • you know, be careful with that.
  • 00:24:01.260 --> 00:24:03.140
  • All ministry is contextual.
  • 00:24:03.140 --> 00:24:04.230
  • Depends on the context that
  • 00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:05.200
  • you're in.
  • 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.160
  • And you have to minister
  • 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:07.260
  • according to that context.
  • 00:24:07.260 --> 00:24:09.240
  • Now, understand that America
  • 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.120
  • suffers from historical amnesia.
  • 00:24:12.210 --> 00:24:15.210
  • And once we--
  • 00:24:16.020 --> 00:24:19.020
  • - Carl: So you don't wanna make
  • 00:24:19.020 --> 00:24:19.210
  • America great again?
  • 00:24:19.210 --> 00:24:20.230
  • I'm kidding.
  • 00:24:20.230 --> 00:24:21.110
  • Let's not go there.
  • 00:24:21.110 --> 00:24:23.230
  • Like, what era are we talkin'?
  • 00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:25.080
  • Okay.
  • 00:24:25.080 --> 00:24:28.050
  • - A.R.: So when you have a
  • 00:24:28.050 --> 00:24:29.110
  • white person say to a person of
  • 00:24:29.110 --> 00:24:31.100
  • color, "Yeah, you know, I don't
  • 00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:34.120
  • agree with the past and
  • 00:24:34.270 --> 00:24:37.270
  • the things that happened in
  • 00:24:37.270 --> 00:24:39.030
  • the past, and you know, my
  • 00:24:39.030 --> 00:24:41.210
  • great-great-grandfather may have
  • 00:24:41.210 --> 00:24:43.070
  • been racist, but I'm not.
  • 00:24:43.070 --> 00:24:45.140
  • I don't believe in oppression
  • 00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:46.210
  • and slavery and what not.
  • 00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:48.110
  • You know, so I'm removed from
  • 00:24:48.110 --> 00:24:51.100
  • all that.
  • 00:24:51.100 --> 00:24:52.110
  • So can we have a relationship on
  • 00:24:52.110 --> 00:24:53.230
  • that basis?"
  • 00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:54.280
  • Well, your assumptions are
  • 00:24:54.280 --> 00:24:56.170
  • wrong.
  • 00:24:56.170 --> 00:24:57.170
  • You're not removed.
  • 00:24:57.170 --> 00:24:58.170
  • Because although you may not be
  • 00:24:58.170 --> 00:24:59.290
  • the perpetrator of those
  • 00:24:59.290 --> 00:25:01.230
  • injustices, you are indeed a
  • 00:25:01.230 --> 00:25:03.200
  • beneficiary of those injustices.
  • 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.160
  • So that gives you an advantage
  • 00:25:08.030 --> 00:25:11.030
  • 300 years later that I don't
  • 00:25:11.030 --> 00:25:13.130
  • have 300 years later.
  • 00:25:13.150 --> 00:25:16.150
  • And we know that the playing
  • 00:25:16.150 --> 00:25:18.130
  • field of human experience is not
  • 00:25:18.130 --> 00:25:20.100
  • level.
  • 00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:21.080
  • That's why we appeal to God.
  • 00:25:21.080 --> 00:25:23.240
  • That's why, you know,
  • 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.000
  • the prophecies said that,
  • 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.030
  • "When Messiah come,
  • 00:25:26.030 --> 00:25:27.070
  • he would fill every valley.
  • 00:25:28.090 --> 00:25:31.090
  • He would lower every hill and
  • 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:34.160
  • mountain.
  • 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:35.110
  • He would make the crooked
  • 00:25:35.110 --> 00:25:37.100
  • straight.
  • 00:25:37.100 --> 00:25:38.060
  • He would take the rough roads
  • 00:25:38.140 --> 00:25:41.140
  • and make them smooth."
  • 00:25:41.140 --> 00:25:42.090
  • And this is beautiful metaphor
  • 00:25:42.090 --> 00:25:44.080
  • for number one, he would fill
  • 00:25:44.140 --> 00:25:47.140
  • the valleys.
  • 00:25:47.140 --> 00:25:48.030
  • And in Luke, if I may, chapter 3
  • 00:25:48.180 --> 00:25:51.180
  • it opens with the power
  • 00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:52.130
  • structure at the time when
  • 00:25:52.130 --> 00:25:55.030
  • John and Jesus began their
  • 00:25:55.030 --> 00:25:56.230
  • ministry.
  • 00:25:56.230 --> 00:25:58.040
  • And why does it present
  • 00:25:58.040 --> 00:25:59.140
  • the power structure?
  • 00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:00.220
  • Because the message would
  • 00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:02.100
  • actually speak out against the
  • 00:26:02.120 --> 00:26:05.120
  • status quo and the power elite.
  • 00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:08.000
  • So that phrase out of the book
  • 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:10.280
  • of Isaiah, when it speaks of
  • 00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:12.190
  • the valley being filled,
  • 00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:15.020
  • it's talking about the vacuum
  • 00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:17.050
  • for righteous leadership would
  • 00:26:17.050 --> 00:26:19.100
  • now be made available and
  • 00:26:19.100 --> 00:26:21.140
  • filled before the people.
  • 00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:24.010
  • Messiah would bring that.
  • 00:26:24.010 --> 00:26:25.130
  • When it spoke of mountains and
  • 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:27.150
  • hills being lowered, it doesn't
  • 00:26:27.150 --> 00:26:28.250
  • mean that he's gonna go around
  • 00:26:28.250 --> 00:26:30.050
  • the world and take Mount Everest
  • 00:26:30.050 --> 00:26:31.150
  • and crush it to the--no, it's
  • 00:26:31.150 --> 00:26:33.260
  • metaphor for the fact that those
  • 00:26:33.260 --> 00:26:36.140
  • who are proud and arrogant,
  • 00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:38.100
  • in positions of power, will be
  • 00:26:38.100 --> 00:26:39.290
  • humbled and given an empathy and
  • 00:26:39.290 --> 00:26:42.200
  • sensitivity to the realities of
  • 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.220
  • human experience,
  • 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:45.250
  • especially the disenfranchised
  • 00:26:45.250 --> 00:26:47.180
  • and the marginalized.
  • 00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:49.200
  • It speaks of the crooked being
  • 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:51.260
  • made straight, that he would
  • 00:26:51.260 --> 00:26:53.150
  • address corruption.
  • 00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:55.260
  • The rough roads being made
  • 00:26:55.290 --> 00:26:58.290
  • smooth is that, based upon the
  • 00:26:59.040 --> 00:27:02.060
  • struggle for power and greed and
  • 00:27:02.060 --> 00:27:04.170
  • corruption, those things that
  • 00:27:04.170 --> 00:27:06.230
  • lead to the abundant life,
  • 00:27:06.230 --> 00:27:09.010
  • all right, there are obstacles
  • 00:27:09.010 --> 00:27:11.010
  • and difficulties in the way that
  • 00:27:11.010 --> 00:27:12.230
  • will be removed at the coming
  • 00:27:12.230 --> 00:27:14.290
  • of Messiah.
  • 00:27:14.290 --> 00:27:15.200
  • And that's why right after that
  • 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:16.200
  • text John then speaks to the
  • 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:19.150
  • crowds and he says,
  • 00:27:19.150 --> 00:27:20.120
  • "Who's warned you to flee,
  • 00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:23.030
  • you brood of vipers?"
  • 00:27:23.030 --> 00:27:24.120
  • And then they started to ask
  • 00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:25.090
  • him, the tax collectors
  • 00:27:25.090 --> 00:27:27.030
  • responded, the soldiers asked
  • 00:27:27.030 --> 00:27:28.080
  • him, "What do we do?"
  • 00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:30.040
  • And he began to speak to their
  • 00:27:30.040 --> 00:27:31.090
  • corruption.
  • 00:27:31.090 --> 00:27:32.070
  • He began to speak to their
  • 00:27:32.070 --> 00:27:33.200
  • injustices.
  • 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.220
  • See, that's where we need to be
  • 00:27:34.250 --> 00:27:37.250
  • and have a very deep and
  • 00:27:37.250 --> 00:27:39.070
  • profound and honest
  • 00:27:39.070 --> 00:27:40.070
  • conversation, and not be afraid.
  • 00:27:40.070 --> 00:27:42.270
  • Issue of race as Christians has
  • 00:27:42.270 --> 00:27:45.130
  • to be dealt with up front.
  • 00:27:45.130 --> 00:27:47.070
  • And it's not in this
  • 00:27:47.070 --> 00:27:48.160
  • conversation.
  • 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:49.180
  • It's in your theology.
  • 00:27:49.180 --> 00:27:51.070
  • We have two heritages in life.
  • 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:54.160
  • We have an earthly, natural
  • 00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:56.030
  • heritage that traces us back to
  • 00:27:56.030 --> 00:27:58.140
  • some color, to some community,
  • 00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:00.210
  • to some cultures, to some
  • 00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:01.230
  • geographic location.
  • 00:28:01.230 --> 00:28:03.090
  • But our spiritual heritage,
  • 00:28:03.090 --> 00:28:05.010
  • which is greater than our
  • 00:28:05.010 --> 00:28:05.200
  • natural heritage, traces it back
  • 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.140
  • to God.
  • 00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:09.100
  • And we discover the imago Dei
  • 00:28:09.100 --> 00:28:11.100
  • and we're elevated to a level
  • 00:28:11.100 --> 00:28:13.130
  • that transcends all of the
  • 00:28:13.130 --> 00:28:15.250
  • issues and walls and barriers
  • 00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:17.280
  • down here because I,
  • 00:28:17.280 --> 00:28:20.110
  • in the image of God,
  • 00:28:20.110 --> 00:28:21.190
  • I can transcend all of these
  • 00:28:21.190 --> 00:28:23.280
  • things that try to suppress me,
  • 00:28:23.280 --> 00:28:25.210
  • marginalize me,
  • 00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:26.220
  • and disenfranchise me.
  • 00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:28.090
  • Because I have a whole new image
  • 00:28:28.090 --> 00:28:29.280
  • of myself.
  • 00:28:29.280 --> 00:28:30.220
  • And that's why, "If any man be
  • 00:28:30.220 --> 00:28:31.230
  • in Christ, he's a new creature,"
  • 00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:34.100
  • a new identity, a new image,
  • 00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:36.130
  • a new self-concept,
  • 00:28:36.130 --> 00:28:37.260
  • a new self-esteem.
  • 00:28:37.260 --> 00:28:40.210
  • - Carl: Can we go ahead
  • 00:28:40.210 --> 00:28:41.060
  • and pound that out?
  • 00:28:41.060 --> 00:28:42.220
  • - A.R.: Oh, yeah.
  • 00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:43.080
  • - Carl: Okay.
  • 00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:45.050
  • Do you think the issue of
  • 00:28:45.050 --> 00:28:46.220
  • white privilege is real?
  • 00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:48.250
  • - A.R.: Absolutely.
  • 00:28:48.250 --> 00:28:50.050
  • - Carl: Go ahead and say it
  • 00:28:50.050 --> 00:28:50.230
  • one more time.
  • 00:28:50.230 --> 00:28:51.180
  • - A.R.: Absolutely.
  • 00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:52.080
  • - Carl: Okay, and--
  • 00:28:52.080 --> 00:28:53.140
  • - A.R.: Like I said--
  • 00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:54.010
  • - Carl: Yeah, I'm gonna just
  • 00:28:54.010 --> 00:28:54.190
  • say this before you even go
  • 00:28:54.190 --> 00:28:55.060
  • there.
  • 00:28:55.060 --> 00:28:55.160
  • If this kinda thing bothers you,
  • 00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:57.030
  • you're exactly the type of
  • 00:28:57.030 --> 00:28:58.020
  • person that needs to be involved
  • 00:28:58.020 --> 00:28:59.060
  • in the conversation.
  • 00:28:59.060 --> 00:29:00.230
  • Because by being bothered,
  • 00:29:00.230 --> 00:29:02.220
  • I think that's the first step to
  • 00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:04.210
  • at least acknowledging that
  • 00:29:04.210 --> 00:29:06.150
  • there's an issue.
  • 00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:07.180
  • And I don't think the point of
  • 00:29:07.180 --> 00:29:08.080
  • any of these conversations is
  • 00:29:08.080 --> 00:29:09.150
  • necessarily to convince anyone.
  • 00:29:09.150 --> 00:29:11.150
  • But even this statement right
  • 00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:12.120
  • now, whether we agree or
  • 00:29:12.120 --> 00:29:13.150
  • disagree, conversation is
  • 00:29:13.150 --> 00:29:15.230
  • the conduit for change.
  • 00:29:15.230 --> 00:29:17.120
  • And so I just, I appreciate you
  • 00:29:17.120 --> 00:29:18.190
  • speakin' truthfully.
  • 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:19.140
  • I just wanna say if this makes
  • 00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:20.060
  • you uncomfortable,
  • 00:29:20.060 --> 00:29:21.010
  • because I know some people,
  • 00:29:21.010 --> 00:29:22.290
  • you know, you might not be doin'
  • 00:29:22.290 --> 00:29:23.260
  • physically, but spiritually,
  • 00:29:23.260 --> 00:29:25.040
  • you might be shifting in your
  • 00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:25.270
  • seat, it needs to be heard.
  • 00:29:26.140 --> 00:29:29.140
  • So back to the,
  • 00:29:29.140 --> 00:29:30.040
  • what we just asked.
  • 00:29:30.040 --> 00:29:31.160
  • You believe white privilege
  • 00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:32.190
  • is real.
  • 00:29:32.190 --> 00:29:34.120
  • - A.R.: Absolutely.
  • 00:29:34.120 --> 00:29:35.050
  • Any power elite or beneficiaries
  • 00:29:36.280 --> 00:29:39.280
  • of the power elite becomes a
  • 00:29:39.280 --> 00:29:42.010
  • privileged class within a
  • 00:29:42.010 --> 00:29:43.060
  • society.
  • 00:29:43.060 --> 00:29:45.060
  • I love when Jesus spoke with
  • 00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:46.230
  • the woman at the well.
  • 00:29:46.230 --> 00:29:48.100
  • She was a Samaritan.
  • 00:29:48.100 --> 00:29:49.290
  • She was a result of over
  • 00:29:49.290 --> 00:29:52.060
  • 800 years of war because she was
  • 00:29:52.110 --> 00:29:55.110
  • a product of when the Assyrians
  • 00:29:55.110 --> 00:29:56.290
  • came in and took the
  • 00:29:56.290 --> 00:29:58.210
  • northern kingdoms of Israel.
  • 00:29:58.210 --> 00:30:00.150
  • They intermarried and they
  • 00:30:00.150 --> 00:30:03.080
  • created this Samaritan culture,
  • 00:30:03.080 --> 00:30:05.250
  • which tried to mirror,
  • 00:30:05.250 --> 00:30:07.040
  • theologically and spiritually,
  • 00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:08.210
  • the Jewish culture.
  • 00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:09.270
  • But they were considered
  • 00:30:09.270 --> 00:30:11.010
  • hybrids.
  • 00:30:11.010 --> 00:30:12.120
  • They were considered
  • 00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:13.130
  • half-breeds.
  • 00:30:13.130 --> 00:30:14.160
  • So they were looked down upon
  • 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.120
  • and were disenfranchised and
  • 00:30:16.120 --> 00:30:17.220
  • marginalized within the society.
  • 00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:19.220
  • So now he has this conversation
  • 00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:21.140
  • with her and he goes beyond just
  • 00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:23.000
  • the conversation.
  • 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:24.090
  • Because if you notice in the
  • 00:30:24.090 --> 00:30:25.070
  • text, he says,
  • 00:30:25.070 --> 00:30:27.150
  • "Give me something to drink."
  • 00:30:27.150 --> 00:30:29.110
  • And she says, "There's nothing
  • 00:30:29.110 --> 00:30:31.000
  • to draw from."
  • 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:32.040
  • And he said, "Well, draw it,
  • 00:30:32.040 --> 00:30:34.090
  • and give it to me."
  • 00:30:34.090 --> 00:30:35.020
  • So what he was saying is, "I'm
  • 00:30:35.020 --> 00:30:36.230
  • willing to drink from your cup."
  • 00:30:36.270 --> 00:30:39.270
  • That's deep because it's not
  • 00:30:39.270 --> 00:30:41.290
  • until you're able to drink from
  • 00:30:41.290 --> 00:30:43.280
  • my cup, my experiences, my path,
  • 00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:48.180
  • my journey, that you can really
  • 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:50.070
  • identify with me and then speak
  • 00:30:50.070 --> 00:30:52.120
  • - A.R.: If your theology gives
  • 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.240
  • you a sense of superiority over
  • 00:30:58.040 --> 00:31:01.060
  • other people, then that theology
  • 00:31:01.290 --> 00:31:04.290
  • is racist.
  • 00:31:04.290 --> 00:31:06.170
  • If you take it to the next step
  • 00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:08.210
  • of engaging in acts of violence,
  • 00:31:09.080 --> 00:31:12.080
  • whether overt or covert, or
  • 00:31:12.080 --> 00:31:13.220
  • marginalization, or the support
  • 00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:15.120
  • of disenfranchisement and
  • 00:31:15.120 --> 00:31:17.140
  • marginalization of a particular
  • 00:31:17.140 --> 00:31:18.270
  • people because of their race,
  • 00:31:18.270 --> 00:31:20.200
  • then now you've gone from being
  • 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.210
  • - Carl: You know, it was cool
  • 00:31:29.290 --> 00:31:31.140
  • because you didn't wanna know
  • 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:32.260
  • what we were gonna talk about,
  • 00:31:32.260 --> 00:31:34.050
  • which shows the depth of your
  • 00:31:34.050 --> 00:31:35.150
  • security in what you believe,
  • 00:31:35.150 --> 00:31:37.040
  • which I love.
  • 00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:37.230
  • And I think, let me just run
  • 00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:38.230
  • this by you.
  • 00:31:38.230 --> 00:31:39.200
  • How can you know if your
  • 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.000
  • theology is racist?
  • 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.040
  • Because you've said that before.
  • 00:31:43.040 --> 00:31:44.090
  • And I think some people were
  • 00:31:44.090 --> 00:31:45.000
  • like, "Is that even possible?"
  • 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.060
  • You know, I think we forget
  • 00:31:46.060 --> 00:31:47.200
  • sometimes how deeply we're
  • 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.160
  • sometimes, if you pick your head
  • 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:52.200
  • up and you think, "Wow," like,
  • 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.120
  • "that's, I've never thought of
  • 00:31:54.120 --> 00:31:55.030
  • that.
  • 00:31:55.030 --> 00:31:55.180
  • Maybe even the way I view
  • 00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:56.230
  • the Bible."
  • 00:31:56.230 --> 00:31:57.110
  • So if you have a quick
  • 00:31:57.110 --> 00:31:59.000
  • checklist, you know that old
  • 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:00.070
  • guy, I think, Jeff Foxworthy,
  • 00:32:00.070 --> 00:32:02.010
  • he was like, "You know you're
  • 00:32:02.010 --> 00:32:03.000
  • a redneck if--"
  • 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.010
  • - A.R.: Yeah.
  • 00:32:04.010 --> 00:32:05.100
  • You know if you're racist if--
  • 00:32:05.100 --> 00:32:06.200
  • - Carl: You know your theology
  • 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:07.220
  • is racist when--
  • 00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:10.170
  • - A.R.: Well, let's--
  • 00:32:10.170 --> 00:32:11.290
  • - Carl: No, no, go there.
  • 00:32:11.290 --> 00:32:12.180
  • Do it.
  • 00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:13.050
  • - A.R.: Let's make the
  • 00:32:16.270 --> 00:32:17.120
  • distinction between racist and
  • 00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:19.040
  • racism.
  • 00:32:19.040 --> 00:32:20.000
  • - Carl: Okay.
  • 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:21.150
  • has a feeling of superiority
  • 00:32:24.070 --> 00:32:27.070
  • above other people by virtue of
  • 00:32:27.070 --> 00:32:30.050
  • that person's race, okay?
  • 00:32:30.050 --> 00:32:32.260
  • Racism is the intentional
  • 00:32:33.130 --> 00:32:36.130
  • violence, oppression,
  • 00:32:36.130 --> 00:32:39.000
  • marginalization,
  • 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.050
  • disenfranchisement against a
  • 00:32:40.050 --> 00:32:42.250
  • segment of the society based
  • 00:32:42.250 --> 00:32:45.210
  • on race.
  • 00:32:45.210 --> 00:32:47.050
  • So if your theology gives you a
  • 00:32:47.050 --> 00:32:49.170
  • sense of superiority over other
  • 00:32:50.130 --> 00:32:53.130
  • people, then that theology
  • 00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:56.060
  • is racist.
  • 00:32:56.060 --> 00:32:57.240
  • If you take it to the next step
  • 00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.290
  • of engaging in acts of violence,
  • 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.160
  • whether overt or covert, or
  • 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:05.020
  • marginalization, or the support
  • 00:33:05.020 --> 00:33:06.240
  • of disenfranchisement and
  • 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.280
  • marginalization of a particular
  • 00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:10.100
  • people because of their race,
  • 00:33:10.100 --> 00:33:11.290
  • then now you've gone from being
  • 00:33:11.290 --> 00:33:14.000
  • - Carl: Do you feel like, you
  • 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:24.190
  • know, a lot of people say, for
  • 00:33:24.190 --> 00:33:26.160
  • whatever reason, even in the
  • 00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:27.100
  • past couple months, there was a
  • 00:33:27.100 --> 00:33:29.060
  • stat that I read about how many
  • 00:33:29.060 --> 00:33:31.010
  • churches didn't even address it.
  • 00:33:31.010 --> 00:33:33.200
  • - A.R.: How many churches?
  • 00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:34.210
  • - Carl: I don't know the stat.
  • 00:33:34.210 --> 00:33:35.210
  • I believe 90% of all stats are
  • 00:33:35.210 --> 00:33:37.020
  • wrong anyways, so.
  • 00:33:37.020 --> 00:33:39.180
  • But I know for a fact, I know
  • 00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:41.040
  • people who pastor churches and
  • 00:33:41.040 --> 00:33:42.170
  • I love them dearly, but I know
  • 00:33:42.170 --> 00:33:43.190
  • they didn't touch it, you know,
  • 00:33:43.190 --> 00:33:44.280
  • when these two men recently,
  • 00:33:44.280 --> 00:33:46.040
  • the stuff that sparked the
  • 00:33:46.040 --> 00:33:47.060
  • latest round of controversy.
  • 00:33:47.060 --> 00:33:49.190
  • These two men were killed
  • 00:33:49.190 --> 00:33:50.110
  • and they didn't touch it.
  • 00:33:50.110 --> 00:33:51.030
  • I think how do you--how do
  • 00:33:51.110 --> 00:33:54.110
  • you as a pastor, because people
  • 00:33:54.110 --> 00:33:55.250
  • will say, "Church should stay
  • 00:33:55.250 --> 00:33:57.110
  • away from that."
  • 00:33:57.110 --> 00:33:58.070
  • Which is, to me, insane.
  • 00:33:58.070 --> 00:33:59.180
  • But people will say, you know,
  • 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:00.110
  • "You need to just be a pastor.
  • 00:34:00.110 --> 00:34:01.240
  • You need to stay out of
  • 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:02.100
  • politics."
  • 00:34:02.100 --> 00:34:02.270
  • Or, "Your church needs to,"
  • 00:34:02.270 --> 00:34:03.170
  • you know?
  • 00:34:03.170 --> 00:34:04.080
  • I don't think we can separate
  • 00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:05.090
  • them.
  • 00:34:05.090 --> 00:34:06.020
  • And you have always been in our
  • 00:34:06.020 --> 00:34:07.110
  • city, that I think, one of the
  • 00:34:07.110 --> 00:34:09.000
  • first places a politician will
  • 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.090
  • go, or an activist will go,
  • 00:34:10.090 --> 00:34:12.120
  • to try to get you and the CCC
  • 00:34:12.120 --> 00:34:14.090
  • behind them in whatever they're
  • 00:34:14.090 --> 00:34:15.090
  • doin'.
  • 00:34:15.090 --> 00:34:15.240
  • 'Cause if you're behind them,
  • 00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:17.130
  • you know, there's weight to it.
  • 00:34:17.130 --> 00:34:19.070
  • How have you navigated this?
  • 00:34:19.070 --> 00:34:20.140
  • Because first of all, do you
  • 00:34:20.140 --> 00:34:21.120
  • believe that the church should
  • 00:34:21.120 --> 00:34:22.180
  • continue to have a hand in
  • 00:34:22.180 --> 00:34:23.200
  • politics?
  • 00:34:23.200 --> 00:34:24.200
  • Do we need to concern ourself
  • 00:34:24.200 --> 00:34:25.270
  • with this stuff?
  • 00:34:25.270 --> 00:34:26.220
  • Or is it something where we have
  • 00:34:26.220 --> 00:34:28.100
  • to keep a distance and, you
  • 00:34:28.100 --> 00:34:29.200
  • know, and remain almost neutral?
  • 00:34:29.200 --> 00:34:32.190
  • - A.R.: You know, we can be
  • 00:34:32.190 --> 00:34:34.220
  • hypocritical as Christians,
  • 00:34:34.220 --> 00:34:36.140
  • black, white--
  • 00:34:36.140 --> 00:34:37.000
  • - Carl: Really?
  • 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.130
  • - A.R.: Black, white,
  • 00:34:38.130 --> 00:34:39.000
  • it doesn't matter, all right?
  • 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.260
  • So if a black person goes to a
  • 00:34:42.120 --> 00:34:45.120
  • church of color in Brooklyn,
  • 00:34:45.120 --> 00:34:47.050
  • Manhattan, doesn't matter, and
  • 00:34:47.050 --> 00:34:49.180
  • their theology says, "Well,
  • 00:34:49.180 --> 00:34:51.110
  • I don't want anything to do
  • 00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:53.170
  • with politics.
  • 00:34:53.170 --> 00:34:55.280
  • I don't want to associate with
  • 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.210
  • people like Al Sharpton, and
  • 00:34:57.210 --> 00:34:59.190
  • Jesse Jackson, and these, or
  • 00:34:59.190 --> 00:35:01.140
  • Black Lives Matters, et cetera,
  • 00:35:01.140 --> 00:35:03.220
  • got it, because Jesus said,
  • 00:35:03.220 --> 00:35:05.250
  • '"Come out from among them.
  • 00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:07.020
  • Be ye separate,"
  • 00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:07.270
  • sayeth the Lord.
  • 00:35:07.270 --> 00:35:08.170
  • Touch not the unclean thing.'"
  • 00:35:08.170 --> 00:35:11.110
  • But then your 18-year-old son
  • 00:35:12.060 --> 00:35:15.060
  • gets pulled over by the police,
  • 00:35:15.060 --> 00:35:17.210
  • is harassed, gets into an
  • 00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:19.050
  • altercation, is shot and killed.
  • 00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:21.170
  • Now you get on the phone
  • 00:35:21.170 --> 00:35:24.100
  • and say, "Can I speak to
  • 00:35:24.100 --> 00:35:25.110
  • Al Sharpton?"
  • 00:35:25.110 --> 00:35:27.260
  • All of a sudden, all of that
  • 00:35:27.260 --> 00:35:30.260
  • talk goes out the window
  • 00:35:30.260 --> 00:35:32.180
  • because the realities of human
  • 00:35:32.180 --> 00:35:34.210
  • experience has now come home.
  • 00:35:34.210 --> 00:35:37.110
  • But it shouldn't take something
  • 00:35:37.110 --> 00:35:38.180
  • like that for you to understand
  • 00:35:38.180 --> 00:35:40.130
  • that you are connected no matter
  • 00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:42.160
  • what.
  • 00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:44.120
  • Politics is power.
  • 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.280
  • Who's got it?
  • 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:49.090
  • How they're using it?
  • 00:35:49.090 --> 00:35:50.260
  • How did they get it?
  • 00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:52.100
  • Should they keep it?
  • 00:35:52.100 --> 00:35:54.050
  • Politics is who gets what, when,
  • 00:35:54.050 --> 00:35:56.040
  • and how.
  • 00:35:56.040 --> 00:35:58.140
  • So when we think of politics,
  • 00:35:58.140 --> 00:36:00.170
  • we're thinking of quality of
  • 00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:02.000
  • life.
  • 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:03.190
  • So if you think that politics
  • 00:36:03.190 --> 00:36:05.200
  • doesn't matter, then you've
  • 00:36:05.200 --> 00:36:07.220
  • gotta think about what's gonna
  • 00:36:07.220 --> 00:36:09.030
  • impact the quality of the
  • 00:36:09.030 --> 00:36:10.250
  • education that your children
  • 00:36:10.250 --> 00:36:11.270
  • receive in their community, the
  • 00:36:11.270 --> 00:36:13.230
  • quality of sanitation removal
  • 00:36:13.230 --> 00:36:15.280
  • that you experience in your
  • 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:18.020
  • community, the condition of the
  • 00:36:18.020 --> 00:36:19.230
  • roads, the delivery of services,
  • 00:36:19.230 --> 00:36:21.290
  • such as postal services,
  • 00:36:21.290 --> 00:36:23.070
  • et cetera, all right?
  • 00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:24.200
  • Because whoever's in power,
  • 00:36:24.200 --> 00:36:26.120
  • all right, they're making
  • 00:36:26.120 --> 00:36:27.270
  • decisions that directly impact
  • 00:36:28.040 --> 00:36:31.040
  • your quality of life.
  • 00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:33.260
  • That's the reality.
  • 00:36:33.260 --> 00:36:35.250
  • You know, I will say this.
  • 00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:38.060
  • I don't know how much time we
  • 00:36:38.060 --> 00:36:38.240
  • have, but I took a group of
  • 00:36:40.180 --> 00:36:43.180
  • pastors and leaders at a
  • 00:36:43.180 --> 00:36:44.190
  • conference that I was doing in
  • 00:36:44.190 --> 00:36:46.140
  • Atlanta, there were 200
  • 00:36:46.140 --> 00:36:48.170
  • and I separated the room
  • 00:36:48.170 --> 00:36:50.160
  • half and half.
  • 00:36:50.160 --> 00:36:52.030
  • One group, a 100, another
  • 00:36:52.030 --> 00:36:54.060
  • 100 here.
  • 00:36:54.060 --> 00:36:55.020
  • And I said, "Okay, you guys,
  • 00:36:55.020 --> 00:36:56.270
  • I want you to read, right now,
  • 00:36:56.270 --> 00:36:59.130
  • read the book of Philippians.
  • 00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:01.100
  • And I want you guys to read
  • 00:37:01.100 --> 00:37:02.250
  • the book of Colossians."
  • 00:37:02.250 --> 00:37:05.020
  • And I sat and I waited for them
  • 00:37:05.020 --> 00:37:06.100
  • to finish.
  • 00:37:06.100 --> 00:37:07.190
  • And I said, "Now, I want you to
  • 00:37:07.190 --> 00:37:09.060
  • mark down, you Philippian
  • 00:37:09.060 --> 00:37:10.270
  • people, you are now Philippian
  • 00:37:10.270 --> 00:37:12.270
  • people over here, I want you to
  • 00:37:12.270 --> 00:37:14.220
  • mark down all the references to
  • 00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:17.200
  • Jesus that you read in that
  • 00:37:17.200 --> 00:37:19.060
  • book.
  • 00:37:19.060 --> 00:37:20.200
  • And I want all you Colossians
  • 00:37:20.200 --> 00:37:21.290
  • people to read through, to mark
  • 00:37:21.290 --> 00:37:23.260
  • down all of the references to
  • 00:37:23.260 --> 00:37:25.080
  • Jesus that you read in that
  • 00:37:25.080 --> 00:37:26.100
  • book.
  • 00:37:26.100 --> 00:37:27.110
  • And let's talk about it."
  • 00:37:27.110 --> 00:37:29.070
  • The Philippians side,
  • 00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:31.040
  • he took the form of a servant.
  • 00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:33.240
  • He humbled himself.
  • 00:37:33.240 --> 00:37:36.180
  • It spoke of individual
  • 00:37:36.180 --> 00:37:39.020
  • relationship with Christ.
  • 00:37:39.020 --> 00:37:41.030
  • And the strengthening of the
  • 00:37:41.030 --> 00:37:43.060
  • unity of the brethren, that he
  • 00:37:44.040 --> 00:37:47.040
  • put aside power, submitted
  • 00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:49.190
  • himself to power, and took on
  • 00:37:49.220 --> 00:37:52.220
  • the form of a servant.
  • 00:37:52.220 --> 00:37:55.020
  • That's those Philippian peoples
  • 00:37:55.020 --> 00:37:56.040
  • over there.
  • 00:37:56.040 --> 00:37:56.190
  • Bless your sweet heart.
  • 00:37:56.250 --> 00:37:59.250
  • The Colossian people,
  • 00:37:59.250 --> 00:38:01.100
  • their Jesus, he was the cosmic
  • 00:38:01.130 --> 00:38:04.130
  • ruler of the universe.
  • 00:38:04.130 --> 00:38:06.140
  • He was the Head of the church.
  • 00:38:06.140 --> 00:38:08.080
  • All principalities and powers
  • 00:38:08.080 --> 00:38:10.020
  • were submitted to him.
  • 00:38:10.020 --> 00:38:11.230
  • He was the divine guide and
  • 00:38:11.230 --> 00:38:13.280
  • author of all things.
  • 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.210
  • By him all things consist.
  • 00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:18.060
  • Every power, visible, invisible,
  • 00:38:19.110 --> 00:38:22.110
  • everything, human or spiritual,
  • 00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:25.190
  • was under his authority.
  • 00:38:25.190 --> 00:38:27.200
  • So they have a localized Jesus,
  • 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:30.170
  • humble, setting power aside,
  • 00:38:31.070 --> 00:38:34.070
  • and they have a cosmic
  • 00:38:34.070 --> 00:38:36.120
  • ruler Jesus who is over all
  • 00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:39.190
  • social institutions,
  • 00:38:39.190 --> 00:38:41.030
  • over all of humanity,
  • 00:38:41.030 --> 00:38:42.280
  • over all governments and
  • 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.130
  • agencies and principalities
  • 00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:46.010
  • and powers.
  • 00:38:46.010 --> 00:38:46.290
  • They're gonna have a problem
  • 00:38:46.290 --> 00:38:48.000
  • with each other because that
  • 00:38:48.050 --> 00:38:51.050
  • theology says, "Jesus rules over
  • 00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:54.000
  • governments.
  • 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.070
  • He rules over social
  • 00:38:55.070 --> 00:38:56.130
  • institutions, whether they
  • 00:38:56.130 --> 00:38:57.220
  • realize it or accept it or not."
  • 00:38:57.220 --> 00:39:00.160
  • This group will say, "Well, we
  • 00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:02.100
  • just need to get along, and be
  • 00:39:02.100 --> 00:39:03.200
  • good Christians in the church,
  • 00:39:03.200 --> 00:39:05.260
  • and not get involved in
  • 00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:06.270
  • politics."
  • 00:39:06.270 --> 00:39:08.050
  • So it depends on the lens
  • 00:39:08.050 --> 00:39:10.190
  • through which you see Jesus.
  • 00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:12.140
  • There's no conflict here.
  • 00:39:12.140 --> 00:39:14.150
  • They're just two different ways
  • 00:39:14.150 --> 00:39:15.200
  • of looking at that Jesus.
  • 00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:17.060
  • And it's not one or the other.
  • 00:39:17.060 --> 00:39:19.070
  • It takes both.
  • 00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:20.130
  • We must see him as the humble
  • 00:39:20.130 --> 00:39:21.290
  • servant so that we walk in
  • 00:39:21.290 --> 00:39:23.280
  • humility, but we must also see
  • 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.020
  • him as the ruler of the universe
  • 00:39:26.020 --> 00:39:28.060
  • with all powers and authorities
  • 00:39:28.060 --> 00:39:30.120
  • submitted to him so we walk
  • 00:39:30.120 --> 00:39:32.120
  • - A.R.: In a world, in a
  • 00:39:36.040 --> 00:39:36.260
  • society, that is getting more
  • 00:39:36.260 --> 00:39:39.010
  • anti-Christ and anti-church,
  • 00:39:39.010 --> 00:39:41.280
  • we need to stand up, be strong,
  • 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.250
  • - Carl: Would you mind prayin'
  • 00:39:52.080 --> 00:39:53.200
  • for us, those of us that are in
  • 00:39:53.200 --> 00:39:55.050
  • here that could use some
  • 00:39:55.050 --> 00:39:57.180
  • Holy Spirit clarity on some of
  • 00:39:57.180 --> 00:39:59.090
  • these issues?
  • 00:39:59.090 --> 00:39:59.250
  • Do I have anybody in here that
  • 00:39:59.250 --> 00:40:01.080
  • would raise your hand with me
  • 00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:02.060
  • and say that you are desperate
  • 00:40:02.060 --> 00:40:03.130
  • to hear God's voice and to have
  • 00:40:03.130 --> 00:40:05.000
  • him help you be an answer in
  • 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.200
  • some of these situations?
  • 00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:08.210
  • I'mma get you to stand to your
  • 00:40:08.210 --> 00:40:09.100
  • feet.
  • 00:40:09.100 --> 00:40:10.010
  • And sir, if you wouldn't mind
  • 00:40:10.010 --> 00:40:11.020
  • just prayin' that the
  • 00:40:11.020 --> 00:40:13.010
  • Holy Spirit will have his way.
  • 00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:15.130
  • I think it's profound what you
  • 00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:16.070
  • said that it wasn't the
  • 00:40:16.070 --> 00:40:17.170
  • institution that saved your
  • 00:40:17.170 --> 00:40:18.130
  • life.
  • 00:40:18.130 --> 00:40:19.010
  • It was the reality of who Jesus
  • 00:40:19.010 --> 00:40:20.060
  • is.
  • 00:40:20.060 --> 00:40:20.260
  • And we have a lot we can agree
  • 00:40:20.260 --> 00:40:22.100
  • on now.
  • 00:40:22.100 --> 00:40:22.280
  • And I'm just really gonna
  • 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:23.240
  • believe there's gonna be a
  • 00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:24.140
  • breakthrough.
  • 00:40:24.140 --> 00:40:25.000
  • We don't need an organ.
  • 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:26.050
  • Sometimes we don't need
  • 00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:26.290
  • the lights.
  • 00:40:26.290 --> 00:40:28.040
  • We can go straight to the source
  • 00:40:28.040 --> 00:40:29.060
  • and believe that God's gonna
  • 00:40:29.060 --> 00:40:30.000
  • have his way.
  • 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:30.230
  • So will you pray for us?
  • 00:40:30.230 --> 00:40:31.180
  • - A.R.: Amen.
  • 00:40:31.180 --> 00:40:32.290
  • Let me just say this to you.
  • 00:40:32.290 --> 00:40:34.050
  • If you're serious about being a
  • 00:40:34.050 --> 00:40:35.000
  • Christian, it takes courage.
  • 00:40:35.060 --> 00:40:38.060
  • It really takes courage.
  • 00:40:38.060 --> 00:40:39.290
  • Because the moment you identify
  • 00:40:39.290 --> 00:40:41.070
  • with Christ, everything else
  • 00:40:41.070 --> 00:40:43.050
  • goes out the window.
  • 00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:44.250
  • And people focus on that
  • 00:40:44.250 --> 00:40:46.090
  • It takes courage.
  • 00:40:49.070 --> 00:40:50.100
  • It takes conviction.
  • 00:40:50.100 --> 00:40:52.280
  • It takes people of strength.
  • 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:55.100
  • And I think those are the kind
  • 00:40:55.100 --> 00:40:56.130
  • of Jesus followers that we need.
  • 00:40:56.130 --> 00:40:59.020
  • In a world, in a society, that
  • 00:40:59.020 --> 00:41:01.120
  • is getting more anti-Christ and
  • 00:41:01.120 --> 00:41:03.190
  • anti-church, we need to stand
  • 00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.190
  • up, be strong, and
  • 00:41:05.190 --> 00:41:07.170
  • Father, first let me just thank
  • 00:41:18.220 --> 00:41:21.170
  • you in great appreciation for
  • 00:41:21.170 --> 00:41:24.110
  • the seed that you sowed in
  • 00:41:24.110 --> 00:41:26.280
  • the heart of
  • 00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:28.170
  • Bobbie and Brian Houston
  • 00:41:28.170 --> 00:41:31.120
  • decades ago to give birth to
  • 00:41:31.120 --> 00:41:33.290
  • what we know globally as
  • 00:41:33.290 --> 00:41:35.210
  • Hillsong.
  • 00:41:35.210 --> 00:41:37.120
  • Thank you for Carl, and Joel,
  • 00:41:37.120 --> 00:41:39.120
  • and all of the others who are
  • 00:41:39.120 --> 00:41:42.080
  • emerging leaders to help lead
  • 00:41:42.130 --> 00:41:45.130
  • that vision out into the future.
  • 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:48.280
  • Thank you for their presence
  • 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:50.040
  • here in New York.
  • 00:41:50.040 --> 00:41:52.140
  • Thank you for this conference.
  • 00:41:52.140 --> 00:41:54.010
  • And thank you for their
  • 00:41:54.010 --> 00:41:55.010
  • willingness to have this open
  • 00:41:55.010 --> 00:41:57.130
  • conversation so that we serve
  • 00:41:57.130 --> 00:42:00.150
  • God not only with our
  • 00:42:00.150 --> 00:42:02.100
  • passion and emotion,
  • 00:42:02.100 --> 00:42:04.120
  • but with our intellect,
  • 00:42:04.120 --> 00:42:06.060
  • that we know how to listen
  • 00:42:08.070 --> 00:42:11.070
  • carefully, read carefully, think
  • 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:16.000
  • critically, and be those
  • 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.120
  • ambassadors that are fearlessly
  • 00:42:18.120 --> 00:42:20.250
  • identified with Christ
  • 00:42:20.250 --> 00:42:22.180
  • and willing to take the
  • 00:42:22.180 --> 00:42:23.250
  • gospel message out into this
  • 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.280
  • world.
  • 00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.060
  • I pray a very special anointing
  • 00:42:29.220 --> 00:42:32.220
  • upon every person who is here
  • 00:42:32.220 --> 00:42:35.090
  • today that you will
  • 00:42:35.090 --> 00:42:37.190
  • supernaturally intrigue them
  • 00:42:38.150 --> 00:42:41.150
  • with the power of the gospel in
  • 00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:44.040
  • this culture to transform lives.
  • 00:42:45.070 --> 00:42:48.070
  • Christ in culture.
  • 00:42:48.070 --> 00:42:50.150
  • Christ in social institutions.
  • 00:42:50.150 --> 00:42:53.020
  • Christ in government,
  • 00:42:53.020 --> 00:42:54.260
  • in education, in sports, in
  • 00:42:54.260 --> 00:42:57.170
  • every aspect of human society.
  • 00:42:57.170 --> 00:43:00.130
  • Let them be the Word made flesh
  • 00:43:02.020 --> 00:43:05.020
  • so that the world can behold
  • 00:43:05.020 --> 00:43:07.120
  • the glory of Christ in these
  • 00:43:08.150 --> 00:43:11.150
  • vessels of honor.
  • 00:43:11.150 --> 00:43:13.060
  • We thank you and bless you,
  • 00:43:13.060 --> 00:43:15.070
  • - Carl: Well, there you have
  • 00:43:21.030 --> 00:43:21.270
  • it.
  • 00:43:21.270 --> 00:43:22.290
  • I enjoyed watchin' that myself,
  • 00:43:22.290 --> 00:43:25.170
  • not because I'm doin' the
  • 00:43:25.170 --> 00:43:26.070
  • interview but because
  • 00:43:26.070 --> 00:43:27.180
  • A.R. Bernard has the ability to
  • 00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:29.270
  • say things that I have never
  • 00:43:29.270 --> 00:43:31.090
  • thought of.
  • 00:43:31.090 --> 00:43:32.020
  • And the way that he answered
  • 00:43:32.020 --> 00:43:33.140
  • those questions, I believe, were
  • 00:43:33.140 --> 00:43:34.240
  • full of grace and truth.
  • 00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:36.060
  • churches will no longer be known
  • 00:43:38.090 --> 00:43:39.240
  • as, "Black churches,"
  • 00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:41.170
  • "White churches,"
  • 00:43:41.170 --> 00:43:42.150
  • but "Kingdom of God churches,"
  • 00:43:42.150 --> 00:43:44.040
  • that represent every race, every
  • 00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:46.080
  • creed, every denomination.
  • 00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:48.000
  • That's the goal.
  • 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:48.170
  • That's where we're headed.
  • 00:43:48.170 --> 00:43:49.110
  • We serve one God,
  • 00:43:49.110 --> 00:43:50.200
  • and Jesus is the truth.
  • 00:43:50.200 --> 00:43:52.010
  • And I pray you enjoyed it.
  • 00:43:52.010 --> 00:43:54.050
  • So if you did, tweet me.
  • 00:43:54.050 --> 00:43:56.030
  • Say, "Hello," online somehow,
  • 00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:57.200
  • some way.
  • 00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:58.130
  • So we love you.
  • 00:43:58.130 --> 00:43:59.010
  • Have the best week ever.
  • 00:43:59.010 --> 00:43:59.270
  • Occupy all streets and
  • 00:43:59.270 --> 00:44:01.110
  • come visit us at
  • 00:44:01.110 --> 00:44:02.050
  • Hillsong New York City.
  • 00:44:02.050 --> 00:44:03.220
  • We got room for you.
  • 00:44:03.220 --> 00:44:04.180
  • [music]
  • 00:44:07.090 --> 00:44:08.000
  • And keep my eyes
  • 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:09.200
  • above the waves
  • 00:44:10.120 --> 00:44:13.120
  • When oceans rise
  • 00:44:13.120 --> 00:44:15.050
  • my soul will rest in
  • 00:44:15.050 --> 00:44:17.030
  • your embrace
  • 00:44:17.050 --> 00:44:20.050
  • I am yours
  • 00:44:21.110 --> 00:44:24.110
  • - Brian: Well, thanks so much
  • 00:44:35.040 --> 00:44:35.220
  • for joining us.
  • 00:44:35.220 --> 00:44:36.260
  • I hope you're being encouraged
  • 00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:38.040
  • and uplifted as you hear
  • 00:44:38.040 --> 00:44:39.080
  • teaching from across the global
  • 00:44:39.080 --> 00:44:41.070
  • platform of Hillsong Church.
  • 00:44:41.070 --> 00:44:43.110
  • I don't know your current
  • 00:44:43.110 --> 00:44:44.000
  • circumstances.
  • 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:45.210
  • I may never have the opportunity
  • 00:44:45.210 --> 00:44:47.080
  • to meet with you in person.
  • 00:44:47.080 --> 00:44:48.270
  • But what I do know and can tell
  • 00:44:48.270 --> 00:44:50.110
  • you today, with the utmost
  • 00:44:50.110 --> 00:44:51.190
  • you.
  • 00:44:53.200 --> 00:44:54.130
  • The Savior of the world,
  • 00:44:54.130 --> 00:44:55.270
  • the Maker of heaven and earth,
  • 00:44:55.270 --> 00:44:57.150
  • knows you, loves you, and
  • 00:44:57.150 --> 00:44:59.090
  • desires relationship with you.
  • 00:44:59.090 --> 00:45:01.150
  • Here at Hillsong Church, we
  • 00:45:01.150 --> 00:45:03.040
  • believe that the Bible is the
  • 00:45:03.040 --> 00:45:04.050
  • inspired Word of God, that it is
  • 00:45:04.050 --> 00:45:06.120
  • as relevant today as the day
  • 00:45:06.120 --> 00:45:08.170
  • The very nature of the gospel is
  • 00:45:13.020 --> 00:45:15.010
  • inclusive.
  • 00:45:15.010 --> 00:45:16.050
  • Everyone, you and me, we're
  • 00:45:16.050 --> 00:45:17.280
  • invited into the story of grace,
  • 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.060
  • invited into a life filled with
  • 00:45:20.060 --> 00:45:21.120
  • passion and purpose and
  • 00:45:21.120 --> 00:45:23.020
  • perspective and peace.
  • 00:45:23.020 --> 00:45:25.030
  • We believe in a God who designed
  • 00:45:25.030 --> 00:45:27.020
  • you and me for a personal
  • 00:45:27.020 --> 00:45:28.170
  • relationship with him,
  • 00:45:28.170 --> 00:45:30.120
  • and healthy relationships with
  • 00:45:30.120 --> 00:45:31.160
  • each other.
  • 00:45:31.160 --> 00:45:33.020
  • Too many people misconceive God.
  • 00:45:33.020 --> 00:45:35.160
  • They believe he's wanting to
  • 00:45:35.160 --> 00:45:36.050
  • judge and punish them.
  • 00:45:36.050 --> 00:45:38.020
  • Yet Jesus said that, "He didn't
  • 00:45:38.020 --> 00:45:39.180
  • come to condemn the world
  • 00:45:39.180 --> 00:45:41.080
  • but to save it."
  • 00:45:41.080 --> 00:45:43.040
  • The Bible tells us that,
  • 00:45:43.040 --> 00:45:44.000
  • "While we were still sinners,
  • 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:45.290
  • Christ died for us."
  • 00:45:45.290 --> 00:45:47.210
  • He died in our place so that
  • 00:45:47.210 --> 00:45:49.010
  • we could have the full,
  • 00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:50.050
  • abundant life that he promises.
  • 00:45:50.050 --> 00:45:52.200
  • Through that death on the cross
  • 00:45:52.200 --> 00:45:54.190
  • and the power of his grace,
  • 00:45:54.190 --> 00:45:56.170
  • God can turn around the most
  • 00:45:56.170 --> 00:45:57.270
  • devastating sin or failure in
  • 00:45:57.270 --> 00:46:00.020
  • What is it that you need today?
  • 00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:04.240
  • Perhaps it's peace or joy.
  • 00:46:04.240 --> 00:46:06.190
  • Maybe it's simply relationship,
  • 00:46:06.190 --> 00:46:08.170
  • comfort, or wisdom.
  • 00:46:08.170 --> 00:46:10.090
  • His grace provides an answer to
  • 00:46:10.090 --> 00:46:11.280
  • every problem, a way through any
  • 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.020
  • obstacle, an enabling power to
  • 00:46:14.020 --> 00:46:16.050
  • do what we can't do in our own
  • 00:46:16.050 --> 00:46:17.250
  • power.
  • 00:46:17.250 --> 00:46:18.280
  • When we learn that of the free,
  • 00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:20.000
  • the unmerited favor of God,
  • 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.200
  • we discover his grace is
  • 00:46:22.200 --> 00:46:23.260
  • all-encompassing, and
  • 00:46:23.260 --> 00:46:25.090
  • all-sufficient.
  • 00:46:25.090 --> 00:46:26.210
  • Can I encourage you today?
  • 00:46:26.210 --> 00:46:28.080
  • If you don't know this Jesus
  • 00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:29.170
  • that I'm talking about, consider
  • 00:46:29.170 --> 00:46:31.090
  • giving your life to him.
  • 00:46:31.090 --> 00:46:32.260
  • It is my heart's desire that you
  • 00:46:32.260 --> 00:46:34.240
  • would make the decision today to
  • 00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:36.250
  • allow the work of Jesus to take
  • 00:46:36.250 --> 00:46:38.080
  • effect in your life, to bring
  • 00:46:38.080 --> 00:46:40.170
  • forgiveness, restore you to full
  • 00:46:40.170 --> 00:46:42.280
  • relationship with God.
  • 00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:44.240
  • Jesus said, "I am the way,
  • 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:47.020
  • the truth, and the life.
  • 00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:48.220
  • Everyone who calls on the name
  • 00:46:48.220 --> 00:46:50.170
  • God already knows you.
  • 00:46:55.270 --> 00:46:57.170
  • Now he wants to be known by you.
  • 00:46:57.170 --> 00:47:00.020
  • It's as simple as this.
  • 00:47:00.020 --> 00:47:02.020
  • Ask him to be the Lord of your
  • 00:47:02.020 --> 00:47:03.060
  • life.
  • 00:47:03.060 --> 00:47:04.060
  • Confess that, like all of us,
  • 00:47:04.060 --> 00:47:06.100
  • you've sinned, and ask him to
  • 00:47:06.100 --> 00:47:08.020
  • wash you clean and help you to
  • 00:47:08.020 --> 00:47:09.230
  • walk with him.
  • 00:47:09.230 --> 00:47:11.030
  • I believe he'll do exactly what
  • 00:47:11.030 --> 00:47:12.270
  • you ask, and that even now you
  • 00:47:12.270 --> 00:47:15.020
  • can be free, cleansed and
  • 00:47:15.020 --> 00:47:17.030
  • blameless in his sight.
  • 00:47:17.030 --> 00:47:19.070
  • And if you're in a vibrant and
  • 00:47:19.070 --> 00:47:20.190
  • personal relationship with God
  • 00:47:20.190 --> 00:47:22.090
  • already, my prayer is that you
  • 00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:24.010
  • too would discover more of who
  • 00:47:24.010 --> 00:47:26.050
  • he is today, that you would find
  • 00:47:26.050 --> 00:47:28.100
  • a great local church, immerse
  • 00:47:28.100 --> 00:47:30.150
  • yourself in the truth of his
  • 00:47:30.150 --> 00:47:31.220
  • Word, and surround yourself with
  • 00:47:31.220 --> 00:47:33.240
  • other believers who can
  • 00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:34.220
  • encourage you on this journey.
  • 00:47:34.220 --> 00:47:37.010
  • I pray that you'll continue to
  • 00:47:37.010 --> 00:47:38.130
  • join us here on
  • 00:47:38.130 --> 00:47:39.140
  • the Hillsong Channel as we dig
  • 00:47:39.140 --> 00:47:41.050
  • deeper into the things of God,
  • 00:47:41.050 --> 00:47:43.070
  • meditate on the truth of
  • 00:47:43.070 --> 00:47:44.040
  • his Word, worship together
  • 00:47:44.040 --> 00:47:46.190
  • in spirit and in truth,
  • 00:47:46.190 --> 00:47:48.120
  • encourage one another through
  • 00:47:48.120 --> 00:47:49.230
  • life's tragedies and victories,
  • 00:47:49.230 --> 00:47:51.250
  • and discover our unique
  • 00:47:51.250 --> 00:47:53.120
  • callings, passions, and purpose.
  • 00:47:53.120 --> 00:47:55.170
  • I believe that together we can
  • 00:47:55.170 --> 00:47:57.120
  • grow in our faith, learn to live
  • 00:47:57.120 --> 00:47:59.180
  • like Jesus, and continue to
  • 00:47:59.180 --> 00:48:01.010
  • share the good news of the
  • 00:48:01.010 --> 00:48:02.100
  • gospel in order that all might
  • 00:48:02.100 --> 00:48:04.160
  • come to know the power and the
  • 00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:06.090
  • purpose found in Jesus' name.
  • 00:48:06.090 --> 00:48:08.290
  • You call me out
  • 00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:43.130
  • upon the waters
  • 00:48:44.060 --> 00:48:47.060
  • the great unknown
  • 00:48:47.220 --> 00:48:50.220
  • where feet may fail
  • 00:48:53.050 --> 00:48:56.050
  • And there I find you
  • 00:48:56.050 --> 00:48:58.050
  • in the mystery
  • 00:48:58.180 --> 00:49:01.200
  • In oceans deep
  • 00:49:02.070 --> 00:49:05.070
  • my faith will stand
  • 00:49:07.190 --> 00:49:10.190
  • And I will call
  • 00:49:10.190 --> 00:49:12.190
  • upon your name
  • 00:49:14.250 --> 00:49:17.250
  • and keep my eyes
  • 00:49:17.250 --> 00:49:19.210
  • above the waves
  • 00:49:20.090 --> 00:49:23.090
  • When oceans rise
  • 00:49:23.090 --> 00:49:25.020
  • my soul will rest
  • 00:49:25.020 --> 00:49:26.240
  • in your embrace
  • 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.000
  • I am yours
  • 00:49:31.090 --> 00:49:34.090
  • Your grace abounds
  • 00:49:50.150 --> 00:49:52.120
  • in deepest waters
  • 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.000
  • Your sovereign hand
  • 00:49:56.160 --> 00:49:59.160
  • will be my guide
  • 00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:05.010
  • Where feet may fail
  • 00:50:05.010 --> 00:50:06.280
  • and fear surrounds me
  • 00:50:07.140 --> 00:50:10.140
  • you've never failed
  • 00:50:10.180 --> 00:50:13.180
  • and you won't start now
  • 00:50:16.160 --> 00:50:19.160
  • So I will call
  • 00:50:19.160 --> 00:50:21.170
  • upon your name
  • 00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:27.030
  • and keep my eyes
  • 00:50:27.030 --> 00:50:28.290
  • above the waves
  • 00:50:29.060 --> 00:50:32.060
  • When oceans rise
  • 00:50:32.060 --> 00:50:34.060
  • my soul will rest
  • 00:50:34.060 --> 00:50:35.290
  • in your embrace
  • 00:50:35.290 --> 00:50:38.230
  • I am yours
  • 00:50:40.130 --> 00:50:43.130
  • and you are mine
  • 00:50:44.030 --> 00:50:47.030
  • Oh, ohhhhhh, oh
  • 00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.000
  • And you are mine
  • 00:50:54.270 --> 00:50:57.270
  • And you are mine
  • 00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:01.220
  • oh, ohhhhhhh, oh
  • 00:51:06.120 --> 00:51:09.120
  • CC by Aberdeen Captioning 1-800-688-6621 www.abercap.com
  • 00:51:38.080 --> 00:51:40.080