Kirk Cameron is joined by Kristen Waggoner of Alliance Defending Freedom and Mark Meckler; President of Convention of States; to discuss the necessity of defending religious freedoms.
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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Defending Religious Freedoms | April 19, 2022
- - Freedom. America's founding principle.
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- Countless men and women have sacrificed their lives
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- to protect the freedoms that Americans enjoy.
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- Yet many of today's news headlines
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- tell us that freedom is under attack.
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- We'll talk with Kristen Waggoner
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- of Alliance Defending Freedom about the work
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- that they've been doing in the courts.
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- What are the victories that we should be celebrating?
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- And where is their cause for concern?
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- Then we'll talk with Mark Meckler,
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- President of Convention of States.
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- What is the Convention of States and why is it so important?
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- Let's talk about it right now on Takeaways.
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- (upbeat music)
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- - I look for opportunities to not only share
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- why these freedoms are important for everyone
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- but why actually following biblical principles
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- and recognizing that biological distinctions matter,
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- that that actually contributes to human flourishing.
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- (upbeat music)
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- - Jesus Christ came as the king.
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- And not a traditional king. A new kind of kingdom.
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- But it was very political.
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- (upbeat music)
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- - Kristen K. Waggoner serves as General Counsel
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- with Alliance Defending Freedom.
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- She oversees the US Legal Division and Communications,
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- which includes more than 100 attorneys who engage
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- in litigation, public advocacy, and legislative support.
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- Kristen's taken a lead role in some of the country's
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- most challenging religious liberty cases.
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- Kristen, I'm so grateful to be able to talk with you.
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- And I'm so inspired by the work that you
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- and your colleagues do at ADF.
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- So thanks for being on Takeaways.
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- - Well, thank you for having me.
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- - So you've litigated so many different types of cases:
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- civil litigation, constitutional law.
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- ADF has been so involved in Supreme Court cases.
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- I'm curious, what inspired you
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- to get into the legal profession?
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- - Well, I didn't have anybody in my family
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- that was a lawyer but I had a great father.
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- My dad, he just from the time I was born,
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- he talked to me about God's purpose in my life
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- and that I needed to find it and that if I didn't,
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- I would be wasting my life.
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- And that led to me just praying about it.
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- And about the age of 12, I just felt like God
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- was directing me to become a lawyer
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- to defend religious freedom and Christian organizations.
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- And that played out in ways I didn't always expect.
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- But you know, I think it's every parent's role
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- to help their children understand that they're no different
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- than Esther or Deborah or David or Nehemiah,
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- heroes of the Bible.
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- We all are called to something God prepares
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- in advance for us to do.
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- - Which I think is so great and so necessary
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- because we often think of, as parents, we think of a calling
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- from God into the ministry or to become a missionary,
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- to become some sort of a religious leader or teacher.
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- But do we really need more lawyers?
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- I mean, is the world a better place with more lawyers?
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- So you feel that this is a calling?
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- - Oh, I absolutely do.
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- I think the world is a better place
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- with Jesus-loving lawyers because God
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- is a god of justice and truth.
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- Those things go together. As does compassion.
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- And so it's been my privilege to be able
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- to serve in this way.
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- - That's awesome and I agree with you 1.000%.
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- So ADF has had nine successful cases before the court
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- in the past seven years, including the famous
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- Hobby Lobby case, which allowed corporations to opt out
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- of covering contraceptives based on religious beliefs.
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- Help us a little bit with this.
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- What tipped the scale in your favor when arguing that case?
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- - Well, I first have to tell you there's an update.
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- We've actually had 13 Supreme Court wins
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- in the last nine years now.
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- And we just got one granted. We've got one coming up too.
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- But we can talk about that later.
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- In terms of the Hobby Lobby victory,
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- we represented a small business owner
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- called Conestoga Woods.
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- And that case was litigated at the Supreme Court
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- with the Hobby Lobby case.
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- It's known as the Hobby Lobby case.
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- And basically it involved closely-held corporations,
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- family businesses who were facing a rule
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- that the Obama administration passed
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- that basically said that businesses
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- and even eventually nonprofits
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- would need to include abortifacients
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- in their employee insurance policies.
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- And so for the owners of Hobby Lobby,
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- as well as Conestoga Woods,
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- they said that violates our convictions.
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- We can't participate in the taking of human life.
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- And that case went up to the US Supreme Court.
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- And we were able to win it there,
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- which ensures that families are able
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- to live out their convictions.
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- They don't have to leave their First Amendment rights
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- or their religious beliefs at home
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- when they go to their office.
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- - You've also successfully argued cases
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- defending religious freedoms like the case
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- of the Christian baker who refused to bake a cake
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- for a same-sex wedding.
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- What made you take on that case? That was kind of unique.
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- That's not the pro-life issue.
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- Why did you guys take that on?
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- - Well, at ADF, we're committed to generational wins.
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- And that means that it's our job as Americans
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- to steward freedom during our generation
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- and hand that freedom to the next generation.
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- And I think that the case, Masterpiece Cakeshop,
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- frequently is misrepresented in the media.
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- What was involved in that case was whether an artist,
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- a cake artist who's using words on the cakes,
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- who's hand-sketching and painting cakes,
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- can be forced to express a message
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- that violates his deeply-held convictions.
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- And the Supreme Court, we won that case
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- in a seven-to-two decision, said that that violated
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- Jack Phillips's right of free exercise of his religion.
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- And really, I think it would be great
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- to talk a little more about how that case came to be
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- 'cause it started in 2012.
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- And now we're seeing a very similar case that the court
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- just agreed to hear, which is called 303 Creative
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- and that is involving the same issues
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- but on the free speech side of things.
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- - Some people might be tempted
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- to think well, it's just a cake.
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- Why are we making such a big deal about this?
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- Why would this go to the Supreme Court?
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- It's a cake. It's icing.
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- But you're now saying that that serves as maybe a precedent
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- for what will happen in the future.
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- Why is it so important?
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- - Because that's how the law works.
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- That's how our justice system works in America.
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- So first of all, when we think about decisions
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- that have been made when we don't stand for our freedom,
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- those decisions lead to future decisions
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- and an expansion of that precedent.
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- And I think what's critical
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- to the Masterpiece Cakeshop ruling is to understand
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- that Jack Phillips serves everyone who walks into his store.
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- The objection wasn't to just designing a cake.
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- That couple could have any cake
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- in his store and purchase it.
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- Instead, it's about being able to choose the message
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- and not speak a message that violates your core convictions.
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- So really that issue transcends our beliefs on marriage.
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- We might disagree on whether we design the cake
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- or not design the cake but we all want to be able
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- to speak messages that are consistent
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- with who we are and what our beliefs are.
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- - Some cases are important but not all cases make it
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- all the way to the Supreme Court.
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- What was it about the Hobby Lobby case
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- and the Masterpiece Cakeshop case that got through the door
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- in front of those justices?
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- - Well, most cases don't make it to the Supreme Court.
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- And in fact, just in this last term,
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- we had two Supreme Court victories but it was the term.
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- It's the second-least term in the history I think it is
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- that the court took the fewest amount of cases.
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- So it's actually the court's taking even fewer cases
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- than it used to take.
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- When you're arguing for the court to take a case,
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- you don't have a right to do that,
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- to have them take the case.
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- So you really need to establish
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- that there's a national issue, that the court needs
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- to expend its limited resources to resolve
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- this issue for the whole nation.
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- And that's why those cases were important.
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- And that there's essentially a grave constitutional issue
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- at stake is also another way of getting
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- the court to take the case.
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- And that was true in both of those cases.
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- - How do you prepare when you know you're gonna be arguing
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- a case that is essentially dealing with two
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- competing moralities because you know the people
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- on the other side of the issue
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- probably have an entirely different worldview
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- and a different base for their morality
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- and they're arguing from that morality.
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- - Well, yes, they are.
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- But the point of free speech and religious freedom
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- is that it doesn't just protect my beliefs or your beliefs.
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- It should protect all beliefs, the right for everyone
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- to be able to explore ideas, to test ideas, and then to live
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- consistent with those ideas peacefully to pursue truth.
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- And if we don't have those First Amendment freedoms
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- and they don't apply to everyone,
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- we actually even can't have a stable society or a democracy.
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- I mean, we can look right now at what's happening
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- in the world and see the implications of denying people
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- these liberties that are inherent
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- to who they are as God's creatures and God's created order.
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- - Now, somebody told me that you often wear
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- a silver bracelet that has something inscribed on it
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- for such a time as this.
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- Is that true? From the Book of Esther?
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- There it is. - Right here.
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- I have two bracelets that I wear.
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- That's one and the second is one that reminds me,
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- when we started Jack's case, that we need to see it through.
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- And so far we've been working on that issue for a decade.
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- So I have that bracelet on today as well.
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- - How do you prepare when you're going into a case
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- and you know that you're gonna be arguing something
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- that is incredibly controversial, like when you were asked
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- whether you believe it's possible
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- for a person to be transgender?
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- You know that you're just gonna you're stirring up
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- the hornets' nest here and this is not going to be easy.
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- How do you mentally prepare for that?
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- - Well, it's interesting that you ask me that.
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- I was at Yale Law School last week and you may see
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- some articles come out about the protests
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- that took place there.
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- And that issue was a big issue.
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- But I think that what it underscores for me
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- is the importance of not only being willing to defend
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- the right to speak the truth, which we've talked about,
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- to defend our mission is to keep the door open
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- for the gospel so to keep that door open for all of us.
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- But we also need to walk through that door
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- and share that truth.
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- And so I look for opportunities to not only share
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- why these freedoms are important for everyone
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- but why actually following biblical principles
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- and recognizing that biological distinctions matter,
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- that biology matters, that boys and girls are different,
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- that that actually contributes to human flourishing.
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- We know that what the scripture says
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- about all these different issues but we also know
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- that God provides these guardrails for a reason
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- because they help human flourishing.
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- And in the issue of transgender individuals,
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- it's primarily women and girls who will suffer the most
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- if we adopt this radical ideology.
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- And that's why I think you're seeing even some progressives,
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- who would never agree on any other issue with someone
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- like ADF, agreeing with us on this issue
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- of men essentially identifying as women and vice versa
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- because it actually it harms humanity and families.
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- - When your opponents in the courtroom try to portray you
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- as the villain and that you're perhaps weaponizing the right
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- to religious freedom in order to harm other people,
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- how do you deal with that?
- 00:11:41.090 --> 00:11:42.792
- - When that comes up I try to explain again
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- those basic truths, which is first of all,
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- these freedoms that we advocate for, they're not only
- 00:11:47.296 --> 00:11:49.932
- in our Constitution and our First Amendment
- 00:11:49.932 --> 00:11:52.902
- but they're innate to just human dignity,
- 00:11:52.902 --> 00:11:55.938
- to an inalienable right means that it is present
- 00:11:55.938 --> 00:11:59.074
- in all of us and we should all have the right
- 00:11:59.074 --> 00:12:01.143
- to explore the meaning of life and to be able
- 00:12:01.143 --> 00:12:03.512
- to peacefully live consistent with it.
- 00:12:03.512 --> 00:12:05.714
- And so I'm not trying to deny others that right
- 00:12:05.714 --> 00:12:08.884
- but I am trying to ensure that those who want to essentially
- 00:12:08.884 --> 00:12:13.722
- crush beliefs and individuals and purge them
- 00:12:13.722 --> 00:12:17.026
- from the public square who hold traditional beliefs
- 00:12:17.026 --> 00:12:19.695
- on sexuality, that that violates the Constitution.
- 00:12:19.695 --> 00:12:23.232
- And the way again you get to pursuing truth and finding
- 00:12:23.232 --> 00:12:26.368
- those answers is by being able to speak freely.
- 00:12:26.368 --> 00:12:30.272
- We're not afraid to be in the marketplace
- 00:12:30.272 --> 00:12:32.441
- and to convey ideas and debate ideas.
- 00:12:32.441 --> 00:12:35.244
- And for those who would seek to weaponize the law
- 00:12:35.244 --> 00:12:37.813
- against us, I think that demonstrates maybe
- 00:12:37.813 --> 00:12:40.549
- that they're not interested in pursuing truth.
- 00:12:40.549 --> 00:12:43.252
- - Does all of this ever take a toll on you personally?
- 00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:47.223
- - It can if you don't have the right perspective.
- 00:12:47.223 --> 00:12:51.293
- And you know, I think that God is so faithful
- 00:12:51.293 --> 00:12:54.230
- in all of our lives.
- 00:12:54.230 --> 00:12:55.931
- We talk a lot at ADF about we wanna litigate excellently.
- 00:12:55.931 --> 00:12:59.201
- We wanna win at the Supreme Court.
- 00:12:59.201 --> 00:13:00.569
- We wanna be fierce advocates that when the ACLU
- 00:13:00.569 --> 00:13:03.672
- or the human rights campaigns sees we're in a case,
- 00:13:03.672 --> 00:13:06.508
- they are worried sick.
- 00:13:06.508 --> 00:13:08.611
- But we also want to be faithful in our witness
- 00:13:08.611 --> 00:13:12.448
- and to leave those results up to the Lord.
- 00:13:12.448 --> 00:13:15.351
- The outcome is in his hands.
- 00:13:15.351 --> 00:13:17.052
- And I've seen so many cases where we may have lost
- 00:13:17.052 --> 00:13:20.122
- at certain points and seeing God use those points
- 00:13:20.122 --> 00:13:23.559
- in our client's lives, in their friends' lives,
- 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:26.028
- to literally bring people to him or to save babies who,
- 00:13:26.028 --> 00:13:29.565
- you know, be able to witness to those
- 00:13:29.565 --> 00:13:31.867
- who would be wanting to have an abortion.
- 00:13:31.867 --> 00:13:33.602
- He will use all things for his glory. And that inspires me.
- 00:13:33.602 --> 00:13:38.040
- - You're such a great representative for ADF
- 00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:40.175
- and for all of us, as you are contending for ideas
- 00:13:40.175 --> 00:13:44.179
- in the public square.
- 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:45.547
- Kristen, that's awesome.
- 00:13:45.547 --> 00:13:47.316
- God's using you in a monumental way.
- 00:13:47.316 --> 00:13:49.084
- What does it feel like to lead cases
- 00:13:49.084 --> 00:13:51.053
- that are literally making history?
- 00:13:51.053 --> 00:13:54.123
- - In so many ways, it's very surreal.
- 00:13:54.123 --> 00:13:56.759
- But I wanna go back to kind of what you started with
- 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.195
- and has been a theme in some of what you said,
- 00:14:00.195 --> 00:14:01.664
- which is how do you do this work balance?
- 00:14:01.664 --> 00:14:03.599
- And, you know, really, we provide that air cover
- 00:14:03.599 --> 00:14:07.036
- but it's the human heart that has to be moved.
- 00:14:07.036 --> 00:14:09.939
- And I would just again say that in doing that,
- 00:14:09.939 --> 00:14:14.043
- our lives travel on many different paths.
- 00:14:14.043 --> 00:14:16.045
- And so being able to have this be a legacy for my kids
- 00:14:16.045 --> 00:14:20.115
- and my family, to have them be trained up in this way
- 00:14:20.115 --> 00:14:24.520
- and to understand it and to know that we're impacting
- 00:14:24.520 --> 00:14:26.722
- future generations, I mean, it's just the most
- 00:14:26.722 --> 00:14:29.458
- inspiring work that there could be.
- 00:14:29.458 --> 00:14:30.893
- There's so many stories, Kirk, that are just of people
- 00:14:30.893 --> 00:14:34.196
- living out a dynamic faith, of having those conversations
- 00:14:34.196 --> 00:14:37.166
- at the kitchen table with their kids, of influencing people
- 00:14:37.166 --> 00:14:40.602
- on these issues, not only about salvation
- 00:14:40.602 --> 00:14:43.238
- but again about how biblical principles
- 00:14:43.238 --> 00:14:46.041
- promote human flourishing.
- 00:14:46.041 --> 00:14:47.843
- And that's what keeps me going.
- 00:14:47.843 --> 00:14:49.278
- And I just pray that we're faithful.
- 00:14:49.278 --> 00:14:51.146
- Wanna be the absolute best lawyer
- 00:14:51.146 --> 00:14:52.982
- and have the best legal team there is.
- 00:14:52.982 --> 00:14:54.917
- But ultimately we know these wins come solely
- 00:14:54.917 --> 00:14:57.619
- from the hand of the Lord.
- 00:14:57.619 --> 00:14:59.288
- - Well, if for whatever reason
- 00:14:59.288 --> 00:15:00.756
- I find myself in court, I know who to call.
- 00:15:00.756 --> 00:15:03.425
- Kristen, we appreciate your commitment to defending
- 00:15:04.760 --> 00:15:07.496
- our faith and freedom of expression.
- 00:15:07.496 --> 00:15:10.032
- When we come back, we're gonna talk
- 00:15:10.032 --> 00:15:11.333
- about the religious landscape of America,
- 00:15:11.333 --> 00:15:13.268
- where we're headed, where we need to be,
- 00:15:13.268 --> 00:15:15.304
- and what it's gonna take to get there.
- 00:15:15.304 --> 00:15:17.206
- We'll tackle that and more right after this.
- 00:15:17.206 --> 00:15:20.109
- (upbeat music)
- 00:15:20.109 --> 00:15:25.002
- (upbeat music)
- 00:15:25.002 --> 00:15:31.320
- We're back with Kristen Waggoner, discussing a trend
- 00:15:32.654 --> 00:15:35.491
- that we're seeing, the push to extinguish
- 00:15:35.491 --> 00:15:38.027
- the religious freedoms in our nation.
- 00:15:38.027 --> 00:15:40.829
- Kristen, why do you think this is happening?
- 00:15:40.829 --> 00:15:43.132
- Who has a problem with praying with your kids
- 00:15:43.132 --> 00:15:46.668
- and thanking God for every good thing
- 00:15:46.668 --> 00:15:48.971
- that you have in your life?
- 00:15:48.971 --> 00:15:50.406
- Why would anybody wanna extinguish religious freedoms?
- 00:15:50.406 --> 00:15:53.842
- - Well, I think as a nation,
- 00:15:53.842 --> 00:15:55.310
- we have had fewer people ascribe and affirm religion,
- 00:15:55.310 --> 00:15:59.281
- which means that they have less sympathy
- 00:15:59.281 --> 00:16:01.817
- towards people of faith.
- 00:16:01.817 --> 00:16:03.819
- And we're seeing more laws passed.
- 00:16:03.819 --> 00:16:06.355
- And so when you combine those things,
- 00:16:06.355 --> 00:16:08.257
- I think it also is contributed to by this new ideology
- 00:16:08.257 --> 00:16:13.328
- that is essentially critical theory.
- 00:16:14.396 --> 00:16:15.697
- And it's the idea that we should divide people
- 00:16:15.697 --> 00:16:19.401
- rather than we're all in this together.
- 00:16:19.401 --> 00:16:21.537
- It's divided by different factors
- 00:16:21.537 --> 00:16:25.274
- or characteristics that we might have.
- 00:16:25.274 --> 00:16:27.543
- And the ideology really says that anyone
- 00:16:27.543 --> 00:16:30.813
- who would suggest that there's objective truth
- 00:16:30.813 --> 00:16:34.016
- that we don't define ourselves, that we don't get to follow
- 00:16:34.016 --> 00:16:37.119
- every desire that we have, anyone who would say
- 00:16:37.119 --> 00:16:39.521
- there's objective truth, those ideas should be purged
- 00:16:39.521 --> 00:16:42.424
- from the public square, that those ideas
- 00:16:42.424 --> 00:16:44.326
- aren't worthy of being heard.
- 00:16:44.326 --> 00:16:45.961
- And then of course, what we hear is you're passing judgment
- 00:16:45.961 --> 00:16:49.631
- and you shouldn't do that when even what we used to hear
- 00:16:49.631 --> 00:16:53.368
- a decade ago even was live and let live, right?
- 00:16:53.368 --> 00:16:55.971
- It's that we should all have these freedoms.
- 00:16:55.971 --> 00:16:58.640
- But now we're actually seeing those who are in power,
- 00:16:58.640 --> 00:17:02.211
- whether it's corporate elites,
- 00:17:02.211 --> 00:17:03.745
- whether it's government officials, really weaponize the law
- 00:17:03.745 --> 00:17:06.748
- and try to silence people of faith who would want to speak
- 00:17:06.748 --> 00:17:11.186
- or live out their beliefs in a way that is honoring to God
- 00:17:11.186 --> 00:17:14.756
- and really consistent with American tradition.
- 00:17:14.756 --> 00:17:17.826
- - Do you think that there might even be a more sinister
- 00:17:17.826 --> 00:17:20.696
- Orwellian motive behind the silencing of religious freedoms
- 00:17:20.696 --> 00:17:25.767
- and beliefs because then religion suggests that there might
- 00:17:27.236 --> 00:17:30.105
- be a power that's higher and more authoritative
- 00:17:30.105 --> 00:17:32.341
- than the government itself?
- 00:17:32.341 --> 00:17:33.909
- I'm re-reading "Animal Farm" these days.
- 00:17:33.909 --> 00:17:35.711
- And it's freaking me out because you know,
- 00:17:35.711 --> 00:17:38.347
- the pigs are in control.
- 00:17:38.347 --> 00:17:40.549
- - I think that there is an Orwellian component to it.
- 00:17:40.549 --> 00:17:43.185
- And in fact, we just have a case, as I said,
- 00:17:43.185 --> 00:17:45.354
- that's going up to the US Supreme Court.
- 00:17:45.354 --> 00:17:47.789
- And the dissent in the lower court, who sided with us, said,
- 00:17:47.789 --> 00:17:51.960
- "This is an Orwellian position that this court is taking.
- 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.564
- "And we know that Orwellian decisions are gonna lead
- 00:17:55.564 --> 00:17:58.700
- "to further are results that are Orwellian."
- 00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:01.537
- So I tend to think of Huxley, you know,
- 00:18:01.537 --> 00:18:04.940
- and the brave new world that he talked about
- 00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:07.709
- and that we are giving up our freedoms,
- 00:18:07.709 --> 00:18:09.978
- we're giving up even our beliefs to have convenience
- 00:18:09.978 --> 00:18:13.815
- and comfort and to essentially be led
- 00:18:13.815 --> 00:18:15.817
- and not have to think for ourselves.
- 00:18:15.817 --> 00:18:18.253
- And that's a concern too but going back
- 00:18:18.253 --> 00:18:20.656
- to this higher authority, I think you're spot-on
- 00:18:20.656 --> 00:18:23.425
- in that being a significant component.
- 00:18:23.425 --> 00:18:25.227
- When I say objective truth, one of the things
- 00:18:25.227 --> 00:18:28.297
- that we have been talking about here at ADF is the need
- 00:18:28.297 --> 00:18:31.900
- to educate people on the concept of objective truth
- 00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:36.071
- and why that matters, why it has value.
- 00:18:36.071 --> 00:18:38.540
- Like, we're having to convince people
- 00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:40.809
- that no, truth is important and here's why.
- 00:18:40.809 --> 00:18:44.947
- Honesty is important. Here's why.
- 00:18:44.947 --> 00:18:46.882
- And objectivity, objective truth matters. And here's why.
- 00:18:46.882 --> 00:18:51.286
- And that's a new battle I think for all of us.
- 00:18:51.286 --> 00:18:54.523
- - Yeah, not to mention just the contradiction
- 00:18:54.523 --> 00:18:57.859
- on the face of that statement, that objective truth is wrong
- 00:18:57.859 --> 00:19:02.698
- because they believe that that itself is objectively true.
- 00:19:02.698 --> 00:19:06.568
- - Yes, that is exactly what's happening.
- 00:19:06.568 --> 00:19:08.470
- And I would just encourage those who are listening
- 00:19:08.470 --> 00:19:11.607
- to think about what is my role in that?
- 00:19:11.607 --> 00:19:14.543
- I mean, for such time as this, we talked about that.
- 00:19:14.543 --> 00:19:17.246
- This is not a surprise to God that we're here.
- 00:19:17.246 --> 00:19:19.982
- He created us. He chose us for this moment.
- 00:19:19.982 --> 00:19:22.517
- So again, while we are arguing that we should be able
- 00:19:22.517 --> 00:19:25.854
- to speak that truth, that we have a place
- 00:19:25.854 --> 00:19:28.056
- in the public square, that we should be contributing
- 00:19:28.056 --> 00:19:29.992
- to the discussion, that we have an inalienable right
- 00:19:29.992 --> 00:19:32.561
- to do that, we actually need to speak that truth,
- 00:19:32.561 --> 00:19:36.198
- to convince others and to allow the Holy Spirit
- 00:19:36.198 --> 00:19:38.800
- to have opportunities to move in their hearts
- 00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:41.169
- as to why these principles are important
- 00:19:41.169 --> 00:19:43.872
- to the common good and to human flourishing.
- 00:19:43.872 --> 00:19:47.309
- - Yeah, isn't it exciting, Kristen?
- 00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:49.511
- I think it was Shakespeare that said all the world
- 00:19:49.511 --> 00:19:51.346
- is a stage and we are players on the stage.
- 00:19:51.346 --> 00:19:53.982
- To think that the author of the great story is God himself.
- 00:19:53.982 --> 00:19:58.420
- And it's a great story and it has a great ending.
- 00:19:58.420 --> 00:20:01.223
- But like with any good story, there's gonna be rebellion.
- 00:20:01.223 --> 00:20:04.059
- There's gonna be times where you think all hope is lost
- 00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:06.995
- and then against all odds, heroes rise up.
- 00:20:06.995 --> 00:20:09.431
- And you're one of those heroes.
- 00:20:09.431 --> 00:20:11.033
- And God's placed us here for such a time as this,
- 00:20:11.033 --> 00:20:15.037
- put us on the stage right now during these difficult times,
- 00:20:15.037 --> 00:20:18.373
- so that as men and women of faith, we can rise up
- 00:20:18.373 --> 00:20:21.410
- and speak the truth and love and we can play our role well.
- 00:20:21.410 --> 00:20:25.047
- I wanna talk for a moment about a couple of cases going on
- 00:20:25.047 --> 00:20:28.583
- that have been in play here in the United States.
- 00:20:28.583 --> 00:20:31.253
- Like, the couple of sets of Wisconsin parents
- 00:20:31.253 --> 00:20:34.389
- that have filed a lawsuit against Kettle Moraine
- 00:20:34.389 --> 00:20:36.692
- School District to challenge its policy
- 00:20:36.692 --> 00:20:39.194
- that allows minor students to change their name
- 00:20:39.194 --> 00:20:42.197
- and gender pronouns at school without parental consent.
- 00:20:42.197 --> 00:20:46.001
- Why is that important?
- 00:20:46.001 --> 00:20:47.569
- - Well, parental rights are under assault in this nation
- 00:20:47.569 --> 00:20:50.205
- and we need to take it seriously.
- 00:20:50.205 --> 00:20:51.807
- My concern is now that the masks are off in schools,
- 00:20:51.807 --> 00:20:55.143
- you know, this concern that parents are have
- 00:20:55.143 --> 00:20:57.746
- where they're starting to pay attention
- 00:20:57.746 --> 00:20:58.947
- to what their children are being taught
- 00:20:58.947 --> 00:21:01.416
- and they're exposed to that through the Zoom calls
- 00:21:01.416 --> 00:21:03.585
- is gonna fade away.
- 00:21:03.585 --> 00:21:04.553
- And that's a grave mistake.
- 00:21:04.553 --> 00:21:06.288
- Those types of policies are being taught
- 00:21:06.288 --> 00:21:09.458
- in the school curriculum regularly
- 00:21:09.458 --> 00:21:12.561
- all over the United States.
- 00:21:12.561 --> 00:21:14.029
- And many parents, I'll hear parents say,
- 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:15.397
- "Well, I live in Texas or Tennessee.
- 00:21:15.397 --> 00:21:17.165
- "This is not happening here."
- 00:21:17.165 --> 00:21:18.533
- Baloney, it is happening across the United States
- 00:21:18.533 --> 00:21:21.970
- and we have the evidence to prove it,
- 00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:24.039
- which is why we've filed these lawsuits.
- 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.475
- And it really comes down to critical theory.
- 00:21:26.475 --> 00:21:29.177
- And the concept of critical theory
- 00:21:29.177 --> 00:21:31.146
- is that there are victims and oppressors,
- 00:21:31.146 --> 00:21:33.415
- there are good guys and bad guys,
- 00:21:33.415 --> 00:21:34.649
- that we don't all have inalienable rights,
- 00:21:34.649 --> 00:21:36.952
- that on the gender identity front, which is the case
- 00:21:36.952 --> 00:21:39.654
- you referred to, that you're not born a boy or a girl,
- 00:21:39.654 --> 00:21:43.125
- that biology doesn't matter, and that actually the state
- 00:21:43.125 --> 00:21:46.261
- has the right to make decisions on behalf of the parent.
- 00:21:46.261 --> 00:21:49.798
- So ultimately this is a parental rights issue.
- 00:21:49.798 --> 00:21:52.300
- But the gender identity ideology at the core
- 00:21:52.300 --> 00:21:55.137
- of the case you mentioned is so corrosive
- 00:21:55.137 --> 00:21:58.707
- to all of our First Amendment rights and to the health
- 00:21:58.707 --> 00:22:01.243
- and wellbeing of our children.
- 00:22:01.243 --> 00:22:02.711
- It is a serious threat that we need to understand
- 00:22:02.711 --> 00:22:06.114
- and to stand against.
- 00:22:06.114 --> 00:22:07.582
- - I know a lot of parents are saying,
- 00:22:07.582 --> 00:22:09.017
- "What can we do about this?
- 00:22:09.017 --> 00:22:10.952
- "I mean, do I pull my kids out of school? Do I support ADF?
- 00:22:10.952 --> 00:22:16.324
- "What can we do?"
- 00:22:16.992 --> 00:22:18.460
- - I think that, you know, each family needs to consider
- 00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:20.829
- their own options but you shouldn't be naive to think
- 00:22:20.829 --> 00:22:23.899
- that just because you're not seeing it in the papers
- 00:22:23.899 --> 00:22:25.867
- that a child brings home, that it's not going on.
- 00:22:25.867 --> 00:22:28.570
- The policy that you referenced in Wisconsin
- 00:22:28.570 --> 00:22:31.173
- is just a school policy.
- 00:22:31.173 --> 00:22:32.741
- And it allows teachers to lie to parents essentially
- 00:22:32.741 --> 00:22:36.411
- about a child's gender confusion.
- 00:22:36.411 --> 00:22:38.213
- In that case, a 12-year-old girl was suffering
- 00:22:38.213 --> 00:22:41.149
- from confusion and the school refused to abide
- 00:22:41.149 --> 00:22:43.452
- by what the parents asked for.
- 00:22:43.452 --> 00:22:44.920
- And they did have to pull the child.
- 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:46.855
- I think we also need to consider that our children
- 00:22:46.855 --> 00:22:48.824
- are being instructed six hours a day in these schools.
- 00:22:48.824 --> 00:22:51.893
- So if you can pull 'em, pull 'em and get 'em into a school
- 00:22:51.893 --> 00:22:55.163
- that has solid Christian education.
- 00:22:55.163 --> 00:22:58.934
- And even if you're not a believer, not a Christian,
- 00:23:00.302 --> 00:23:02.537
- in a school that isn't set on indoctrinating children
- 00:23:02.537 --> 00:23:06.374
- in woke ideology, which is what most of our public schools
- 00:23:06.374 --> 00:23:09.478
- are doing right now.
- 00:23:09.478 --> 00:23:10.912
- - In another incident, Mississippi school official
- 00:23:10.912 --> 00:23:13.615
- forced a third grader to take off her Jesus loves me mask.
- 00:23:13.615 --> 00:23:18.386
- What do we need to know about that case?
- 00:23:18.386 --> 00:23:20.522
- - I wish you could meet that third grader.
- 00:23:20.522 --> 00:23:22.824
- Lydia is just the most amazing nine-year-old girl.
- 00:23:22.824 --> 00:23:25.794
- And it was during the COVID situation. She went to school.
- 00:23:25.794 --> 00:23:30.065
- Of course she had to have a face covering.
- 00:23:30.065 --> 00:23:32.133
- And other students got to have writing on their masks.
- 00:23:32.133 --> 00:23:34.936
- But the school essentially targeted Lydia's religious speech
- 00:23:34.936 --> 00:23:38.440
- that said Jesus loves me.
- 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:40.509
- It's a long and winding case in many respects.
- 00:23:40.509 --> 00:23:43.445
- But I think what will surprise people the most
- 00:23:43.445 --> 00:23:46.948
- is that when she was told to remove her Jesus loves me mask,
- 00:23:46.948 --> 00:23:50.185
- she was also told by the school
- 00:23:50.185 --> 00:23:52.487
- that that was consistent with its policy.
- 00:23:52.487 --> 00:23:54.956
- And what Lydia's mom learned later
- 00:23:54.956 --> 00:23:57.893
- was that they were deceiving her
- 00:23:57.893 --> 00:23:59.494
- and that that hadn't actually been in the policy.
- 00:23:59.494 --> 00:24:02.531
- Students at public schools, they have the right to be able
- 00:24:02.531 --> 00:24:06.167
- to express their faith in their private expression
- 00:24:06.167 --> 00:24:09.771
- and the school does not have the right to target people
- 00:24:09.771 --> 00:24:12.741
- of faith or target religious messages.
- 00:24:12.741 --> 00:24:15.310
- And that happens all too often.
- 00:24:15.310 --> 00:24:16.845
- So it's a privilege to represent Lydia.
- 00:24:16.845 --> 00:24:19.614
- And the school has changed its policy because of her stand,
- 00:24:19.614 --> 00:24:23.084
- although the litigation continues today.
- 00:24:23.084 --> 00:24:25.687
- - Can you tell us about the Dobbs versus Jackson
- 00:24:25.687 --> 00:24:29.024
- Women's Health Organization case?
- 00:24:29.024 --> 00:24:31.226
- Why is that important?
- 00:24:31.226 --> 00:24:32.661
- - Well, that's a critical case
- 00:24:32.661 --> 00:24:34.329
- in our effort to protect life.
- 00:24:34.329 --> 00:24:36.731
- In Roe versus Wade as well as in a subsequent decision
- 00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.468
- called Casey, the Supreme Court essentially made up
- 00:24:40.468 --> 00:24:43.805
- its own rules on whether abortion was protected
- 00:24:43.805 --> 00:24:47.542
- in the Constitution and when and how.
- 00:24:47.542 --> 00:24:49.945
- And it's a complicated path because again,
- 00:24:49.945 --> 00:24:52.314
- they're just making it up.
- 00:24:52.314 --> 00:24:53.548
- It's not based in the text or the history
- 00:24:53.548 --> 00:24:55.550
- of our nation or our Constitution.
- 00:24:55.550 --> 00:24:58.086
- And so the Dobbs case is a case involving a Mississippi law
- 00:24:58.086 --> 00:25:01.990
- that essentially restricts abortion after 15 weeks.
- 00:25:01.990 --> 00:25:05.527
- And if you know anything about fetal development,
- 00:25:05.527 --> 00:25:07.929
- you know that at 15 weeks, that baby is a baby.
- 00:25:07.929 --> 00:25:11.566
- There, you know, the baby may feel pain.
- 00:25:11.566 --> 00:25:14.302
- There are eyelids, hands, fingerprints,
- 00:25:14.302 --> 00:25:16.605
- all of these things are there.
- 00:25:16.605 --> 00:25:18.873
- Essentially the importance of that case
- 00:25:18.873 --> 00:25:20.742
- isn't though just limited to protecting babies
- 00:25:20.742 --> 00:25:23.411
- that will be in their mother's womb
- 00:25:23.411 --> 00:25:25.580
- from 15 weeks until birth but in order to rule
- 00:25:25.580 --> 00:25:29.250
- for Mississippi in that case, the court will likely
- 00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:32.387
- have to reverse Roe versus Wade, which established
- 00:25:32.387 --> 00:25:36.057
- a constitutional right to abortion.
- 00:25:36.057 --> 00:25:38.326
- So it is a once-in-a-generation opportunity
- 00:25:38.326 --> 00:25:42.130
- to protect life and to essentially overturn Roe,
- 00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:46.201
- which is a horrendous decision by the Supreme Court.
- 00:25:46.201 --> 00:25:49.104
- - Now, can you clarify that for us.
- 00:25:49.104 --> 00:25:50.739
- If Roe versus Wade gets overturned by the Supreme Court,
- 00:25:50.739 --> 00:25:55.276
- does that make abortion illegal across the country
- 00:25:55.276 --> 00:25:59.247
- or does it just push the decision
- 00:25:59.247 --> 00:26:01.182
- to each state to make up its mind?
- 00:26:01.182 --> 00:26:03.718
- - It pushes the decision to each state.
- 00:26:03.718 --> 00:26:05.987
- It essentially says the Constitution doesn't give,
- 00:26:05.987 --> 00:26:10.492
- the federal Constitution, doesn't give a right to abortion,
- 00:26:10.492 --> 00:26:14.129
- which means next we would look at the states' rights
- 00:26:14.129 --> 00:26:16.731
- and what the states do.
- 00:26:16.731 --> 00:26:18.166
- So really what it does is prompt a discussion in each state
- 00:26:18.166 --> 00:26:21.636
- and potentially a decision to decide whether to protect life
- 00:26:21.636 --> 00:26:25.006
- or not to protect life, which again underscores
- 00:26:25.006 --> 00:26:27.542
- the importance of hearts and minds, Kirk.
- 00:26:27.542 --> 00:26:29.411
- It's our job as people to have those conversations
- 00:26:29.411 --> 00:26:32.814
- with our neighbors, to influence our kids
- 00:26:32.814 --> 00:26:35.016
- so that we can continue to have a pro-life culture.
- 00:26:35.016 --> 00:26:38.019
- - Do you think that America is in trouble
- 00:26:38.019 --> 00:26:41.289
- with this woke ideology and the direction that we're headed?
- 00:26:41.289 --> 00:26:44.092
- If we don't reverse course and get back on the right track,
- 00:26:44.092 --> 00:26:47.962
- where could all of this lead?
- 00:26:47.962 --> 00:26:50.065
- - I think that the Bible tells us to love God
- 00:26:50.065 --> 00:26:52.133
- and love our neighbor.
- 00:26:52.133 --> 00:26:53.601
- And those are the two most important instructions
- 00:26:53.601 --> 00:26:56.871
- that he gives us.
- 00:26:56.871 --> 00:26:58.406
- And so I think loving God means that we are faithful
- 00:26:58.406 --> 00:27:01.576
- to the word, we're faithful to our beliefs.
- 00:27:01.576 --> 00:27:05.547
- And those beliefs actually protect religious freedom
- 00:27:05.547 --> 00:27:09.084
- and free speech and human dignity for everyone,
- 00:27:09.084 --> 00:27:11.152
- even those who don't believe as we do.
- 00:27:11.152 --> 00:27:13.555
- Loving our neighbor means expressing those beliefs
- 00:27:13.555 --> 00:27:16.458
- in a compassionate and kind way but it also means
- 00:27:16.458 --> 00:27:18.793
- standing up when we see that laws are passed and the culture
- 00:27:18.793 --> 00:27:21.996
- is going in a direction that brings harm,
- 00:27:21.996 --> 00:27:24.733
- brings harm to children.
- 00:27:24.733 --> 00:27:25.967
- And we will reap what we sow.
- 00:27:25.967 --> 00:27:28.169
- So on the one hand, I'm not a fan of the direction
- 00:27:28.169 --> 00:27:31.906
- that we seem to be heading but I also think about
- 00:27:31.906 --> 00:27:35.477
- the example of Pharaoh and Moses where, you know,
- 00:27:35.477 --> 00:27:38.780
- he's out killing the Hebrew boys
- 00:27:38.780 --> 00:27:40.515
- and one of 'em's living under his roof.
- 00:27:40.515 --> 00:27:42.350
- We don't know what God has for this season.
- 00:27:42.350 --> 00:27:45.053
- What we do know is that he asks us
- 00:27:45.053 --> 00:27:47.188
- to be faithful, to be winsome in our speech
- 00:27:47.188 --> 00:27:50.125
- and to be witness-bearers for him.
- 00:27:50.125 --> 00:27:52.660
- And my role is here in the law.
- 00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:55.363
- Your role is in advocating in the many
- 00:27:55.363 --> 00:27:57.332
- different things you do.
- 00:27:57.332 --> 00:27:58.733
- And those who are listening all have a role
- 00:27:58.733 --> 00:28:00.368
- that none of us can play.
- 00:28:00.368 --> 00:28:01.870
- - History teaches us that it's often during times
- 00:28:01.870 --> 00:28:05.273
- of moral decline, of economic depression
- 00:28:05.273 --> 00:28:08.343
- and spiritual apathy, that the family of faith
- 00:28:08.343 --> 00:28:12.280
- finally wakes up and you see that behind the scenes,
- 00:28:12.280 --> 00:28:15.383
- God is using these external pressures to awaken
- 00:28:15.383 --> 00:28:20.288
- and alarm his people and help us to remember
- 00:28:20.288 --> 00:28:23.525
- that when we choose to sin, we choose to suffer
- 00:28:23.525 --> 00:28:25.527
- and the path of obedience is the path of blessing.
- 00:28:25.527 --> 00:28:29.898
- And I think we are teed up for revival.
- 00:28:29.898 --> 00:28:33.134
- And I am so thankful for you, Kristen, and for ADF
- 00:28:33.134 --> 00:28:36.638
- and all that you're doing to protect our freedoms.
- 00:28:36.638 --> 00:28:39.574
- You're truly making a mark on the nation.
- 00:28:39.574 --> 00:28:42.877
- I hope you'll stay with us, everybody. We'll be right back.
- 00:28:42.877 --> 00:28:45.146
- (upbeat music)
- 00:28:45.146 --> 00:28:50.003
- (upbeat music)
- 00:28:50.003 --> 00:28:56.724
- Welcome back, we're now joined by Mark Meckler,
- 00:28:57.859 --> 00:29:00.929
- President of Convention of States.
- 00:29:00.929 --> 00:29:03.531
- He was also the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots.
- 00:29:03.531 --> 00:29:06.367
- Mark, thanks so much for joining us today.
- 00:29:06.367 --> 00:29:08.536
- I'm really interested in hearing more
- 00:29:08.536 --> 00:29:10.038
- about Convention of States.
- 00:29:10.038 --> 00:29:11.573
- And we're gonna talk about that in our next segment.
- 00:29:11.573 --> 00:29:13.942
- But right now I want you all to know a little bit more
- 00:29:13.942 --> 00:29:16.244
- about Mark and about the problems
- 00:29:16.244 --> 00:29:18.379
- that he believes America's facing today.
- 00:29:18.379 --> 00:29:20.481
- Mark, you're a man of deep faith but you're way over
- 00:29:21.883 --> 00:29:26.421
- into the political side of things.
- 00:29:27.522 --> 00:29:28.990
- Is that something that you just always were interested in
- 00:29:28.990 --> 00:29:31.793
- or did you feel a particular calling to go into politics?
- 00:29:31.793 --> 00:29:35.463
- - Well, I was always interested.
- 00:29:35.463 --> 00:29:36.965
- I grew up in a family that was very interested in politics.
- 00:29:36.965 --> 00:29:39.300
- My dad had me start reading the newspaper
- 00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:41.002
- when I was probably 12 years old and discussing politics.
- 00:29:41.002 --> 00:29:43.938
- But I was not involved. I mean, I voted.
- 00:29:43.938 --> 00:29:46.641
- That's about the extent of my involvement
- 00:29:46.641 --> 00:29:48.743
- until around 2009, 2010, and everything
- 00:29:48.743 --> 00:29:52.046
- kinda shifted at that point.
- 00:29:52.046 --> 00:29:53.548
- - Okay, well, how did you come to faith in Christ?
- 00:29:53.548 --> 00:29:57.819
- I mean, would you grow up in a Christian household?
- 00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:00.121
- - No, not at all.
- 00:30:00.121 --> 00:30:01.589
- I grew up in a secular Jewish household in Los Angeles.
- 00:30:01.589 --> 00:30:04.058
- There was no God in the house.
- 00:30:04.058 --> 00:30:05.960
- Judeo-Christian values were very strong
- 00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:07.996
- and so definitely Bible-based in our value set
- 00:30:07.996 --> 00:30:11.232
- but no faith whatsoever.
- 00:30:11.232 --> 00:30:12.667
- And a lot of Jewish friends who went to temple
- 00:30:12.667 --> 00:30:15.136
- and they were not faith-based either.
- 00:30:15.136 --> 00:30:16.938
- A lot of Christian friends.
- 00:30:16.938 --> 00:30:18.172
- I went to church with some of them.
- 00:30:18.172 --> 00:30:20.808
- But really, again, not much God in any of those households.
- 00:30:20.808 --> 00:30:23.845
- So it took me a long time to come to faith.
- 00:30:23.845 --> 00:30:26.648
- - When we come to faith in Christ, we wanna know
- 00:30:26.648 --> 00:30:29.550
- what does God want me to do now?
- 00:30:29.550 --> 00:30:31.152
- Now that I'm on the team, what play am I supposed to run?
- 00:30:31.152 --> 00:30:35.156
- And not many Christians think about the public square
- 00:30:35.156 --> 00:30:40.228
- and politics because politics is kind of dirty.
- 00:30:41.562 --> 00:30:43.598
- But you've really dove into this area.
- 00:30:43.598 --> 00:30:46.100
- And you believe that the government in America
- 00:30:46.100 --> 00:30:50.538
- is assuming more and more power that doesn't belong to it.
- 00:30:50.538 --> 00:30:55.043
- In what ways do you see the American government
- 00:30:55.043 --> 00:30:58.079
- assuming too much power?
- 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.214
- - Well, I think it's important
- 00:31:00.214 --> 00:31:01.149
- to go back to the Bible always.
- 00:31:01.149 --> 00:31:02.750
- And one of the fundamentals in our Christian faith
- 00:31:02.750 --> 00:31:05.286
- is that God gave us free will, right?
- 00:31:05.286 --> 00:31:07.622
- And I believe God gave us America as the place
- 00:31:07.622 --> 00:31:10.325
- best suited to exercise that free will within God's law.
- 00:31:10.325 --> 00:31:14.195
- And so what I look at is how does the government's law
- 00:31:14.195 --> 00:31:17.699
- contradict God's law?
- 00:31:17.699 --> 00:31:19.534
- And that's where we as Christians, in my opinion,
- 00:31:19.534 --> 00:31:21.569
- have to get into the arena and fight is to make our laws,
- 00:31:21.569 --> 00:31:24.572
- our system, consistent with God's law.
- 00:31:24.572 --> 00:31:27.308
- And one of the things that I see happening every day
- 00:31:27.308 --> 00:31:29.010
- is just our basic freedom to worship is being impinged
- 00:31:29.010 --> 00:31:32.814
- by the federal government.
- 00:31:32.814 --> 00:31:34.349
- We saw this in spades during the whole coronavirus stuff,
- 00:31:34.349 --> 00:31:36.851
- all the Wuhan virus, right?
- 00:31:36.851 --> 00:31:38.653
- Can't go to church. Can't get together to worship.
- 00:31:38.653 --> 00:31:41.923
- Well, it's fundamental that we gather
- 00:31:41.923 --> 00:31:43.558
- for fellowship and worship.
- 00:31:43.558 --> 00:31:44.926
- And when they said we couldn't do that,
- 00:31:44.926 --> 00:31:46.594
- that's something I believe that the federal government
- 00:31:46.594 --> 00:31:48.162
- should never be involved in,
- 00:31:48.162 --> 00:31:49.364
- nor the state governments frankly.
- 00:31:49.364 --> 00:31:51.232
- - What are some more areas where you see that the government
- 00:31:51.232 --> 00:31:54.702
- is wrongly usurping power away from the people?
- 00:31:54.702 --> 00:31:58.539
- Like, you talk about the spending
- 00:31:58.539 --> 00:32:00.742
- and debt crisis, regulatory crisis.
- 00:32:00.742 --> 00:32:02.777
- What are those things?
- 00:32:02.777 --> 00:32:04.245
- - Well, right now, if you look at the federal government,
- 00:32:04.245 --> 00:32:05.713
- we're over $30 trillion in debt.
- 00:32:05.713 --> 00:32:08.149
- If you look at long-term liabilities,
- 00:32:08.149 --> 00:32:09.484
- it's actually over $150 trillion in debt.
- 00:32:09.484 --> 00:32:12.220
- - 150 trillion. How do you come up with that number?
- 00:32:12.220 --> 00:32:14.322
- - Yeah, because if you look at all the stuff
- 00:32:14.322 --> 00:32:16.024
- we're committed to that we're not spending this year,
- 00:32:16.024 --> 00:32:18.526
- for example Social Security and long-term welfare benefits.
- 00:32:18.526 --> 00:32:21.462
- - Oh, okay, we're on the hook for all that money
- 00:32:21.462 --> 00:32:23.164
- 'cause people have donated to the system.
- 00:32:23.164 --> 00:32:24.632
- - Has to be spent no matter what.
- 00:32:24.632 --> 00:32:26.234
- So that amount of money, to be perfectly honest,
- 00:32:26.234 --> 00:32:28.870
- I don't even know what that means.
- 00:32:28.870 --> 00:32:30.405
- I don't think anybody knows what that means
- 00:32:30.405 --> 00:32:31.939
- except it's immoral and our children and our grandchildren
- 00:32:31.939 --> 00:32:35.576
- and all of our progeny will be burdened with that.
- 00:32:35.576 --> 00:32:37.945
- So that's an area where the federal government
- 00:32:37.945 --> 00:32:39.347
- has overstepped and frankly morally overstepped.
- 00:32:39.347 --> 00:32:42.183
- - Talk about the attacks on individual states' rights.
- 00:32:42.183 --> 00:32:47.255
- What does that mean?
- 00:32:47.922 --> 00:32:49.390
- - Well, the way our government was constituted initially
- 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:51.926
- in the convention, 1787, was the states created
- 00:32:51.926 --> 00:32:55.897
- the federal government and they gave the federal government
- 00:32:55.897 --> 00:32:57.999
- a limited amount of power, 17 enumerated powers initially.
- 00:32:57.999 --> 00:33:01.602
- And unfortunately, over the last 115 years,
- 00:33:01.602 --> 00:33:04.038
- the federal government, through the courts,
- 00:33:04.038 --> 00:33:05.339
- have taken thousands of powers,
- 00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:06.808
- pretty much infinite power over our daily lives.
- 00:33:06.808 --> 00:33:09.677
- - I wanna pause right there
- 00:33:09.677 --> 00:33:10.912
- and double-click on that statement.
- 00:33:10.912 --> 00:33:13.181
- The states gave the federal government power.
- 00:33:13.181 --> 00:33:16.384
- Isn't it the other way around?
- 00:33:16.384 --> 00:33:17.785
- Doesn't the federal government give the states power?
- 00:33:17.785 --> 00:33:20.488
- Like, the White House tells the governor of Florida
- 00:33:20.488 --> 00:33:23.057
- what to do and the governor of California what to do,
- 00:33:23.057 --> 00:33:25.526
- not the other way around?
- 00:33:25.526 --> 00:33:26.928
- - That's the way the federal government likes it
- 00:33:26.928 --> 00:33:28.162
- but that's not the way the Constitution reads.
- 00:33:28.162 --> 00:33:29.931
- The Constitution is actually a unique document
- 00:33:29.931 --> 00:33:32.433
- in human history because it places limitations
- 00:33:32.433 --> 00:33:35.436
- on federal power, it doesn't.
- 00:33:35.436 --> 00:33:36.370
- - Why would they do that?
- 00:33:36.370 --> 00:33:37.605
- Why would the states wanna limit the power
- 00:33:37.605 --> 00:33:40.208
- of the federal government when the federal government
- 00:33:40.208 --> 00:33:42.910
- is the ones printing the money and they control the armies?
- 00:33:44.278 --> 00:33:47.048
- They're the ones who can fix all our problems.
- 00:33:47.048 --> 00:33:48.950
- - Because they understood from their history
- 00:33:48.950 --> 00:33:51.319
- that central governments become tyrannies
- 00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:53.321
- and that the only way to prevent tyranny or limit tyranny
- 00:33:53.321 --> 00:33:56.290
- is to disperse the power out to the people
- 00:33:56.290 --> 00:33:58.793
- where the governments are closer to the people.
- 00:33:58.793 --> 00:34:01.696
- - That sounds like our founding fathers
- 00:34:01.696 --> 00:34:04.098
- must have understood the sin nature of man,
- 00:34:04.098 --> 00:34:06.601
- which means they must have been reading the Bible
- 00:34:06.601 --> 00:34:09.470
- and they understood that the only one who can have all power
- 00:34:09.470 --> 00:34:13.241
- and all authority and use it wisely is God himself.
- 00:34:13.241 --> 00:34:18.312
- We will end up taking advantage of other people.
- 00:34:19.647 --> 00:34:23.151
- And so they said, "Let's spread the power out.
- 00:34:23.151 --> 00:34:25.853
- "Let's spread the authority out
- 00:34:25.853 --> 00:34:27.388
- "so that one guy can't turn into a Hitler."
- 00:34:27.388 --> 00:34:30.291
- - Yeah, you know, the founders understood this very deeply.
- 00:34:30.291 --> 00:34:32.560
- They studied human nature. They all knew the Bible.
- 00:34:32.560 --> 00:34:35.897
- They all understood the history of government.
- 00:34:35.897 --> 00:34:38.065
- So they knew where we were headed
- 00:34:38.065 --> 00:34:40.001
- and they tried to head us off.
- 00:34:40.001 --> 00:34:41.569
- - You talk about federal overreach
- 00:34:41.569 --> 00:34:44.505
- in decision-making processes for individuals.
- 00:34:44.505 --> 00:34:49.410
- What does that mean?
- 00:34:49.410 --> 00:34:51.045
- - Well, there's a bunch of different examples
- 00:34:51.045 --> 00:34:52.480
- of this that are really easy.
- 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:53.748
- For example, just your basic property rights.
- 00:34:53.748 --> 00:34:56.350
- I mean, you generally should have the right
- 00:34:56.350 --> 00:34:58.019
- to do whatever you want with your own private property.
- 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:00.188
- That's a fundamental liberty.
- 00:35:00.188 --> 00:35:02.123
- Property comes out of your work, your labor, right?
- 00:35:02.123 --> 00:35:05.092
- So God gave you the ability to work. He wants us to work.
- 00:35:05.092 --> 00:35:08.963
- And when you work, you produce income.
- 00:35:08.963 --> 00:35:11.065
- That income is used to produce property.
- 00:35:11.065 --> 00:35:12.767
- And now we have the federal government telling you
- 00:35:12.767 --> 00:35:14.302
- and the state governments how do you use your own property.
- 00:35:14.302 --> 00:35:17.972
- It's hard to imagine the founders being told how to use
- 00:35:17.972 --> 00:35:21.676
- their own property by the government.
- 00:35:21.676 --> 00:35:23.311
- It gets down to the absurd.
- 00:35:23.311 --> 00:35:24.912
- Literally, now the government tells us what kind of toilet
- 00:35:24.912 --> 00:35:27.782
- we can put in our house.
- 00:35:27.782 --> 00:35:29.217
- Can you imagine Ben Franklin in his outhouse.
- 00:35:29.217 --> 00:35:30.818
- And the government comes along,
- 00:35:30.818 --> 00:35:32.220
- tells him what kind of outhouse he can put in his yard.
- 00:35:32.220 --> 00:35:34.422
- It was unimaginable to the founders that government
- 00:35:34.422 --> 00:35:36.824
- would be involved in intimate aspects
- 00:35:36.824 --> 00:35:38.626
- of our lives like that.
- 00:35:38.626 --> 00:35:40.127
- - I have to question is the government really allowed,
- 00:35:40.127 --> 00:35:42.430
- the federal government really allowed to tell me
- 00:35:42.430 --> 00:35:44.265
- what I have to put into my body, how I raise my children,
- 00:35:44.265 --> 00:35:49.337
- what I'm allowed to actually think
- 00:35:50.438 --> 00:35:52.206
- and say out loud on social media
- 00:35:52.206 --> 00:35:55.142
- and if I say the wrong thing I get canceled or banned?
- 00:35:55.142 --> 00:35:59.213
- That's getting into areas that sound very scary to me.
- 00:36:00.581 --> 00:36:03.784
- - Yeah, I mean, basically what you're talking about
- 00:36:03.784 --> 00:36:05.286
- is totalitarianism and that is primarily
- 00:36:05.286 --> 00:36:08.155
- the history of humankind.
- 00:36:08.155 --> 00:36:09.991
- People think of history swinging back and forth
- 00:36:09.991 --> 00:36:12.593
- between liberty and tyranny.
- 00:36:12.593 --> 00:36:13.828
- It's really tyranny to really bad tyranny.
- 00:36:13.828 --> 00:36:16.530
- And we have an aberration here in the United States
- 00:36:16.530 --> 00:36:19.000
- in modern history and only we can preserve that.
- 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:22.403
- We're on the verge in my opinion of losing it.
- 00:36:22.403 --> 00:36:24.639
- It's up to us to preserve it.
- 00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:26.707
- - What are some examples of the way
- 00:36:26.707 --> 00:36:28.776
- let's say religious freedom is being taken away
- 00:36:28.776 --> 00:36:31.345
- from us in America?
- 00:36:31.345 --> 00:36:32.813
- - Well, we talked about it earlier.
- 00:36:32.813 --> 00:36:34.148
- And I think it's important to define
- 00:36:34.148 --> 00:36:35.916
- when you talk about soft tyranny versus tyranny, right?
- 00:36:35.916 --> 00:36:38.185
- Tyranny is the police come in, they bust down your door,
- 00:36:38.185 --> 00:36:40.888
- they throw you in jail for what you think.
- 00:36:40.888 --> 00:36:42.723
- And that's not our daily experience, right?
- 00:36:42.723 --> 00:36:44.725
- So sometimes we don't react.
- 00:36:44.725 --> 00:36:46.260
- But when they shut down your church and people just say,
- 00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:48.796
- "Oh, okay, well, we'll just go home
- 00:36:48.796 --> 00:36:50.564
- "and we'll watch church on TV and my pastor will sit
- 00:36:50.564 --> 00:36:53.401
- "in his living room and video broadcast to us."
- 00:36:53.401 --> 00:36:56.070
- That's soft tyranny because what you're being told
- 00:36:56.070 --> 00:36:58.406
- is your right to express your faith, your right to worship
- 00:36:58.406 --> 00:37:01.876
- with other people, has been taken away.
- 00:37:01.876 --> 00:37:03.744
- Well, maybe it's for my own good or maybe I don't even know.
- 00:37:03.744 --> 00:37:06.480
- Everybody's doing this right now so it's not a problem.
- 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.417
- That's an example of soft tyranny or the idea that, frankly,
- 00:37:09.417 --> 00:37:12.853
- that we all have to wear masks.
- 00:37:12.853 --> 00:37:14.322
- You know, you think, well, it's maybe
- 00:37:14.322 --> 00:37:15.656
- it's for all of our own good.
- 00:37:15.656 --> 00:37:17.124
- You go into the airport. You got to put on your mask.
- 00:37:17.124 --> 00:37:19.527
- I don't wear the mask in the airport
- 00:37:19.527 --> 00:37:20.728
- but most people do, right?
- 00:37:20.728 --> 00:37:22.330
- And so that's soft tyranny.
- 00:37:22.330 --> 00:37:24.398
- It doesn't seem painful at the time that it happens
- 00:37:24.398 --> 00:37:27.501
- but they're slowly chipping away at your freedoms.
- 00:37:27.501 --> 00:37:30.237
- - Hey, when we come back, we're gonna discuss
- 00:37:31.539 --> 00:37:32.773
- Convention of States.
- 00:37:32.773 --> 00:37:34.275
- If you're not familiar with what that is, you need to be.
- 00:37:34.275 --> 00:37:37.745
- Mark's gonna talk with us about that.
- 00:37:37.745 --> 00:37:39.613
- And we're gonna learn more about how we can safeguard
- 00:37:39.613 --> 00:37:42.016
- our religious freedoms.
- 00:37:42.016 --> 00:37:43.718
- Stay tuned.
- 00:37:43.718 --> 00:37:44.785
- (upbeat music)
- 00:37:44.785 --> 00:37:49.998
- (upbeat music)
- 00:37:49.998 --> 00:37:56.197
- Hey, we're back with Mark Meckler,
- 00:37:57.298 --> 00:37:59.266
- discussing Convention of States.
- 00:37:59.266 --> 00:38:01.769
- So Mark, most of us have never heard
- 00:38:01.769 --> 00:38:03.771
- of Convention of States.
- 00:38:03.771 --> 00:38:06.006
- That's not an organization that you created.
- 00:38:06.006 --> 00:38:08.376
- That's something in the Constitution of the United States,
- 00:38:08.376 --> 00:38:10.678
- specifically in the Fifth Article of the US Constitution.
- 00:38:10.678 --> 00:38:15.750
- Explain it to us.
- 00:38:16.417 --> 00:38:17.852
- - Yeah, so in the Fifth Article, it describes the ways
- 00:38:17.852 --> 00:38:19.720
- that we have to amend the Constitution.
- 00:38:19.720 --> 00:38:21.722
- The first way is when two-thirds of both houses of Congress
- 00:38:21.722 --> 00:38:24.959
- decide to propose an amendment.
- 00:38:24.959 --> 00:38:26.193
- It goes out to the states for ratification,
- 00:38:26.193 --> 00:38:27.928
- three-quarters of the states.
- 00:38:27.928 --> 00:38:29.597
- There's a second way that we've never used.
- 00:38:29.597 --> 00:38:31.732
- All our amendments, 27, come from the first way.
- 00:38:31.732 --> 00:38:33.934
- The second way is when two-thirds of the states
- 00:38:33.934 --> 00:38:36.504
- decide to get together in convention,
- 00:38:36.504 --> 00:38:38.606
- they pass resolutions in their state legislature,
- 00:38:38.606 --> 00:38:41.041
- it takes 34 states, and they can gather in convention
- 00:38:41.041 --> 00:38:44.145
- and propose amendments, just like Congress can at any time.
- 00:38:44.145 --> 00:38:47.114
- And then those amendments go out
- 00:38:47.114 --> 00:38:48.315
- for ratification by the same way.
- 00:38:48.315 --> 00:38:49.583
- It takes three-quarters of the states to ratify.
- 00:38:49.583 --> 00:38:51.452
- So that's the process specified in the Constitution.
- 00:38:51.452 --> 00:38:54.355
- - Okay, that's a lot of information.
- 00:38:54.355 --> 00:38:56.757
- So first of all, why would we ever want
- 00:38:56.757 --> 00:38:59.059
- to amend the Constitution?
- 00:38:59.059 --> 00:39:00.494
- The Constitution is a great document.
- 00:39:01.595 --> 00:39:03.931
- It's one of the most precious freedom documents
- 00:39:03.931 --> 00:39:06.534
- that we have today.
- 00:39:06.534 --> 00:39:08.035
- Why would we ever want to amend it?
- 00:39:08.035 --> 00:39:10.438
- - Well, unfortunately, especially over the last 115 years,
- 00:39:10.438 --> 00:39:13.307
- the courts have essentially amended our Constitution
- 00:39:13.307 --> 00:39:15.709
- hundreds of times.
- 00:39:15.709 --> 00:39:17.344
- If you look at what they've done, there are thousands
- 00:39:17.344 --> 00:39:19.447
- of pages of court cases that came out of the Supreme Court
- 00:39:19.447 --> 00:39:22.383
- telling us what this beautiful little document means.
- 00:39:22.383 --> 00:39:25.085
- And there are things in there
- 00:39:25.085 --> 00:39:26.320
- that really don't make any sense.
- 00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:28.155
- And the only way that we have to push back against that
- 00:39:28.155 --> 00:39:30.891
- when the court does things that you or I or the majority
- 00:39:30.891 --> 00:39:33.260
- of people don't believe in is to call a convention,
- 00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:35.496
- propose amendments, and tell them no, we're gonna go back
- 00:39:35.496 --> 00:39:37.598
- to something more like the original Constitution.
- 00:39:37.598 --> 00:39:39.867
- - So normally the federal government has to come together
- 00:39:39.867 --> 00:39:44.104
- and agree to make a change to the Constitution,
- 00:39:44.104 --> 00:39:48.008
- to outlaw certain things or whether we're talking
- 00:39:48.008 --> 00:39:50.845
- about slavery or other kinds of things
- 00:39:50.845 --> 00:39:52.980
- like the Bill of Rights, making sure
- 00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:55.549
- that we have that freedom of speech,
- 00:39:55.549 --> 00:39:57.318
- that freedom of religion.
- 00:39:57.318 --> 00:39:59.720
- But the Convention of States, it's kind of the last line
- 00:40:01.055 --> 00:40:04.225
- of defense if the government turns tyrannical.
- 00:40:04.225 --> 00:40:09.296
- Then they're gonna make amendments that serve themselves
- 00:40:10.564 --> 00:40:12.433
- and might injure the people, right?
- 00:40:12.433 --> 00:40:14.301
- So talk about what happened that created that Article Five
- 00:40:14.301 --> 00:40:19.373
- Convention of States option.
- 00:40:20.174 --> 00:40:20.975
- How did that come about?
- 00:40:20.975 --> 00:40:22.309
- - Yeah, I think this is really important.
- 00:40:22.309 --> 00:40:23.544
- Two days before the end of convention in 1787,
- 00:40:23.544 --> 00:40:26.380
- Colonel George Mason stands up, he's from Virginia,
- 00:40:26.380 --> 00:40:29.416
- and he says, "We've made a big mistake.
- 00:40:29.416 --> 00:40:30.818
- "We gave the power to Congress to propose amendments
- 00:40:30.818 --> 00:40:33.821
- "but we didn't give it to the people
- 00:40:33.821 --> 00:40:35.055
- "acting through the states."
- 00:40:35.055 --> 00:40:36.257
- And then he asked a question.
- 00:40:36.257 --> 00:40:37.725
- He said, "Are we so naive that we believe
- 00:40:37.725 --> 00:40:39.560
- "that a federal government that becomes a tyranny
- 00:40:39.560 --> 00:40:41.595
- "would ever propose amendments to restrain its own tyranny?"
- 00:40:41.595 --> 00:40:45.032
- Now, I think they laughed actually because of course
- 00:40:45.032 --> 00:40:47.167
- tyrants don't restrain themselves.
- 00:40:47.167 --> 00:40:48.769
- That's never happened.
- 00:40:48.769 --> 00:40:50.204
- We kind of know they did 'cause we have Madison's notes,
- 00:40:50.204 --> 00:40:52.740
- which say two Latin abbreviations, nincom,
- 00:40:52.740 --> 00:40:55.543
- which means no comment.
- 00:40:55.543 --> 00:40:57.011
- There's no debate about this.
- 00:40:57.011 --> 00:40:58.913
- And in fact then what they do is they unanimously adopt
- 00:40:58.913 --> 00:41:01.615
- the second provision of Article Five that allows us
- 00:41:01.615 --> 00:41:04.451
- in the states to route around a tyrannical
- 00:41:04.451 --> 00:41:06.687
- federal government and propose amendments
- 00:41:06.687 --> 00:41:08.656
- to restrain federal tyranny.
- 00:41:08.656 --> 00:41:10.457
- - So essentially the people within the states can say,
- 00:41:10.457 --> 00:41:15.329
- "Uh-uh, uh-uh, the federal government has turned
- 00:41:15.329 --> 00:41:19.400
- "into a monster and so we are gonna
- 00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.236
- "get together as the people."
- 00:41:22.236 --> 00:41:24.972
- And it takes a lot of us to do this
- 00:41:24.972 --> 00:41:26.473
- because it's not easy to do.
- 00:41:26.473 --> 00:41:27.942
- It's kind of the nuclear option.
- 00:41:27.942 --> 00:41:29.343
- It's the last ditch effort to restrain evil.
- 00:41:29.343 --> 00:41:32.546
- And we're gonna get together and amend the Constitution
- 00:41:32.546 --> 00:41:34.949
- specifically for the purpose of what?
- 00:41:34.949 --> 00:41:37.217
- - Restraining federal tyranny.
- 00:41:37.217 --> 00:41:39.486
- - Holding back the beast of an out-of-control government.
- 00:41:39.486 --> 00:41:43.557
- Okay, do you think that we're really there in our country
- 00:41:43.557 --> 00:41:46.827
- where we need to bring on a convention of states to amend
- 00:41:46.827 --> 00:41:50.598
- the constitution to limit the power of the government?
- 00:41:50.598 --> 00:41:53.334
- - I think we're absolutely there.
- 00:41:53.334 --> 00:41:54.835
- And I think the results speak for themselves.
- 00:41:54.835 --> 00:41:56.870
- When we look, you know, if you can go all the way back,
- 00:41:56.870 --> 00:41:58.639
- I'm kind of an old guy.
- 00:41:58.639 --> 00:41:59.873
- I go all the way back to President Reagan.
- 00:41:59.873 --> 00:42:01.475
- When he was elected, he promised to shrink
- 00:42:01.475 --> 00:42:03.010
- the federal government, put Bill Bennett in charge
- 00:42:03.010 --> 00:42:05.346
- of the Department of Education, promised to do away
- 00:42:05.346 --> 00:42:07.915
- with the Department of Education.
- 00:42:07.915 --> 00:42:09.617
- Now, I love Ronald Reagan, he's definitely
- 00:42:09.617 --> 00:42:11.552
- a conservative icon, but the federal government
- 00:42:11.552 --> 00:42:13.554
- was bigger when he left office.
- 00:42:13.554 --> 00:42:15.522
- The Department of Education was bigger when Bill Bennett
- 00:42:15.522 --> 00:42:17.825
- left the Department of Education than when they started.
- 00:42:17.825 --> 00:42:20.427
- The beast is too big to restrain
- 00:42:20.427 --> 00:42:22.296
- from within Washington DC.
- 00:42:22.296 --> 00:42:24.365
- It has to be done by the people outside.
- 00:42:24.365 --> 00:42:26.467
- - Some people might be watching this going, wow,
- 00:42:26.467 --> 00:42:27.968
- you guys just got all political.
- 00:42:27.968 --> 00:42:29.503
- Like, this is, you know, you're faith guys.
- 00:42:29.503 --> 00:42:32.840
- And if we get focused on politics,
- 00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:35.009
- we're gonna turn people away from Jesus.
- 00:42:35.009 --> 00:42:36.977
- Are we out of our lane right now by talking
- 00:42:36.977 --> 00:42:39.580
- about political things and amending the constitution?
- 00:42:39.580 --> 00:42:42.349
- - You know, I think we're right in the heart of our lane.
- 00:42:42.349 --> 00:42:44.451
- Right after I became a Christian, and I came late in life,
- 00:42:44.451 --> 00:42:47.254
- I was 51, I'm 60 now, I went to Israel.
- 00:42:47.254 --> 00:42:49.757
- We did a tour of Israel, the holy land.
- 00:42:49.757 --> 00:42:52.292
- And we did it from a political and a faith perspective.
- 00:42:52.292 --> 00:42:54.762
- And what you realize when you look at what happened
- 00:42:54.762 --> 00:42:56.997
- when Jesus Christ came to Earth, when God sent his only son
- 00:42:56.997 --> 00:43:00.334
- to be sacrificed on Earth, it was very political time.
- 00:43:00.334 --> 00:43:03.570
- And you had the entire world around the Sea of Galilee.
- 00:43:03.570 --> 00:43:06.340
- And Jesus Christ came as the king, right?
- 00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:09.543
- Not a traditional king, a new kind of kingdom.
- 00:43:09.543 --> 00:43:12.513
- But it was very political.
- 00:43:12.513 --> 00:43:14.314
- The Israelites said, "Oh, you're gonna be our king.
- 00:43:14.314 --> 00:43:16.050
- "You're gonna restore Israel."
- 00:43:16.050 --> 00:43:17.418
- Not that kind of a king but he created
- 00:43:17.418 --> 00:43:19.453
- all sorts of political turmoil.
- 00:43:19.453 --> 00:43:21.088
- And he actually was, in addition to being our savior,
- 00:43:21.088 --> 00:43:23.490
- a very political figure at the time.
- 00:43:23.490 --> 00:43:25.125
- So I think this is right where we belong.
- 00:43:25.125 --> 00:43:27.294
- God expects us to express our faith in every arena.
- 00:43:27.294 --> 00:43:30.898
- And I've not been able to find anything in scripture
- 00:43:30.898 --> 00:43:32.766
- in nine years since I became a Christian saying, "Yeah,
- 00:43:32.766 --> 00:43:35.169
- "you shouldn't express your faith in the arena of politics."
- 00:43:35.169 --> 00:43:38.806
- - Our faith should be like leaven that leavens through
- 00:43:38.806 --> 00:43:42.643
- the entire lump of bread, of dough, right,
- 00:43:42.643 --> 00:43:46.113
- that we don't wanna divorce our faith from the way
- 00:43:46.113 --> 00:43:49.850
- we use money, from the way that we love
- 00:43:49.850 --> 00:43:53.087
- our children and our friends.
- 00:43:53.087 --> 00:43:55.823
- We don't wanna divorce faith from the public square.
- 00:43:55.823 --> 00:43:58.992
- It needs to be there for it to have its heavenly influence.
- 00:43:58.992 --> 00:44:03.397
- - Yeah, and I would like to add I think Satan
- 00:44:04.465 --> 00:44:06.133
- wants us to stay out of politics because he's in politics.
- 00:44:06.133 --> 00:44:09.670
- - Certainly evil men want good men to stay out of politics.
- 00:44:09.670 --> 00:44:13.474
- That's what they're counting on.
- 00:44:13.474 --> 00:44:14.908
- - Right, so if we don't bring our faith into politics
- 00:44:14.908 --> 00:44:16.376
- then what we say is, "Well, we'll leave that playing field,
- 00:44:16.376 --> 00:44:18.979
- "which has so much influence in human affairs,
- 00:44:18.979 --> 00:44:20.881
- "we'll leave that to Satan."
- 00:44:20.881 --> 00:44:23.050
- - So back to Convention of States, in order to call
- 00:44:23.050 --> 00:44:26.587
- this meeting together of the people of the United States,
- 00:44:26.587 --> 00:44:29.990
- you need two-thirds of all the states to agree to convene,
- 00:44:29.990 --> 00:44:34.561
- to hold a convention.
- 00:44:34.561 --> 00:44:36.396
- And then there's a very specific process laid out
- 00:44:37.765 --> 00:44:39.666
- in the Fifth Article of the Constitution
- 00:44:39.666 --> 00:44:42.336
- that says how many of the people in attendance need to agree
- 00:44:42.336 --> 00:44:45.739
- to the amendment? - Yeah, that's correct.
- 00:44:45.739 --> 00:44:47.641
- - And is it a lot, like is it easy
- 00:44:47.641 --> 00:44:48.876
- to pass an amendment through this way?
- 00:44:48.876 --> 00:44:50.544
- - I think it's very hard to get to convention.
- 00:44:50.544 --> 00:44:52.279
- That takes 34 states.
- 00:44:52.279 --> 00:44:53.614
- Right now we have 18 states that have agreed
- 00:44:53.614 --> 00:44:55.682
- to go to convention.
- 00:44:55.682 --> 00:44:57.184
- - 18 of our states have already agreed to do this.
- 00:44:57.184 --> 00:44:59.052
- - Yeah, so three states literally
- 00:44:59.052 --> 00:45:00.254
- just in the last month or so have agreed.
- 00:45:00.254 --> 00:45:01.655
- That's the last states were Wisconsin,
- 00:45:01.655 --> 00:45:03.090
- Nebraska, and West Virginia.
- 00:45:03.090 --> 00:45:04.458
- - So you're not alone in thinking
- 00:45:04.458 --> 00:45:06.527
- that this is serious enough to call a convention of states.
- 00:45:06.527 --> 00:45:09.463
- - Yeah, we're well on the way.
- 00:45:09.463 --> 00:45:10.931
- And then it takes a majority of states in convention,
- 00:45:10.931 --> 00:45:12.800
- so 26 states, to say to the rest of the states,
- 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.602
- "Hey, here's a suggestion.
- 00:45:15.602 --> 00:45:17.204
- "We'd like you guys to consider ratifying it."
- 00:45:17.204 --> 00:45:19.573
- And then it takes 38 states or three quarters
- 00:45:19.573 --> 00:45:21.608
- of states to actually ratify.
- 00:45:21.608 --> 00:45:22.910
- It's not easy.
- 00:45:22.910 --> 00:45:23.811
- - Has this ever been done before?
- 00:45:24.912 --> 00:45:27.080
- Has a convention of states ever been called
- 00:45:27.080 --> 00:45:29.950
- in the history of our country?
- 00:45:29.950 --> 00:45:31.385
- - It has not.
- 00:45:31.385 --> 00:45:32.986
- - It is not.
- 00:45:32.986 --> 00:45:33.921
- - It's never been done before,
- 00:45:33.921 --> 00:45:35.422
- which is one of the reasons I think it's so extraordinary
- 00:45:35.422 --> 00:45:38.058
- to be doing it right now and to be living in this time
- 00:45:38.058 --> 00:45:41.028
- when we need to and we have the opportunity to do this.
- 00:45:41.028 --> 00:45:44.731
- - If the convention of states happens and it's successful,
- 00:45:44.731 --> 00:45:48.936
- how will that help the family of faith
- 00:45:48.936 --> 00:45:52.105
- safeguard our First Amendment rights?
- 00:45:52.105 --> 00:45:55.209
- - Yeah, I think the most important way
- 00:45:55.209 --> 00:45:56.944
- is it'll get the federal government out of our business
- 00:45:56.944 --> 00:46:00.881
- when it comes to the practice of our religion.
- 00:46:00.881 --> 00:46:03.650
- You know, the states are generally speaking not all
- 00:46:03.650 --> 00:46:05.552
- but generally speaking much more friendly to faith.
- 00:46:05.552 --> 00:46:07.487
- People are much more free to exercise their faith
- 00:46:07.487 --> 00:46:09.690
- in the majority of states.
- 00:46:09.690 --> 00:46:11.225
- And so it gets the government out of our way
- 00:46:11.225 --> 00:46:13.627
- generally speaking, not only in faith
- 00:46:13.627 --> 00:46:15.462
- but in all other areas.
- 00:46:15.462 --> 00:46:17.197
- It also removes strife from the American body politic.
- 00:46:17.197 --> 00:46:20.500
- And I think this is really important.
- 00:46:20.500 --> 00:46:22.236
- One of the reasons we're so at each other's throats
- 00:46:22.236 --> 00:46:24.538
- in America today is 'cause we're different.
- 00:46:24.538 --> 00:46:26.640
- New York is different than Texas,
- 00:46:26.640 --> 00:46:28.275
- which is different than California.
- 00:46:28.275 --> 00:46:30.177
- When we govern everybody from Washington DC,
- 00:46:30.177 --> 00:46:33.213
- we force a one-size-fits-all on everybody.
- 00:46:33.213 --> 00:46:35.415
- So we have to have those fights. They're important.
- 00:46:35.415 --> 00:46:38.418
- If they're in all the states,
- 00:46:38.418 --> 00:46:39.620
- we wouldn't be fighting that way.
- 00:46:39.620 --> 00:46:41.054
- We're much closer to each other within a state
- 00:46:41.054 --> 00:46:42.890
- than we are as a nation of states.
- 00:46:42.890 --> 00:46:45.192
- - I can hear some people saying, "But wait a second.
- 00:46:46.526 --> 00:46:48.262
- "If you amend the Constitution, you've just walked in.
- 00:46:48.262 --> 00:46:53.333
- "I mean, you've thrown open the door to the holy place."
- 00:46:54.735 --> 00:46:58.171
- I mean, you can't change the heart and soul of America.
- 00:46:58.171 --> 00:47:03.243
- And you could be opening a Pandora's box.
- 00:47:04.244 --> 00:47:06.613
- And now all of a sudden you could destroy the Constitution
- 00:47:06.613 --> 00:47:09.783
- and unravel things in a way that you didn't intend.
- 00:47:09.783 --> 00:47:13.654
- What do you say to that?
- 00:47:13.654 --> 00:47:15.155
- - Well, I would say one, the founders disagreed with that.
- 00:47:15.155 --> 00:47:17.391
- So I think that's really important.
- 00:47:17.391 --> 00:47:18.892
- They put this in there for a purpose. They understood.
- 00:47:18.892 --> 00:47:20.794
- They were very smart men who understood human history
- 00:47:20.794 --> 00:47:23.797
- and human nature very well.
- 00:47:23.797 --> 00:47:25.632
- And they knew this time would come.
- 00:47:25.632 --> 00:47:27.467
- And number two is you have to understand the process.
- 00:47:27.467 --> 00:47:29.636
- And this is really important.
- 00:47:29.636 --> 00:47:31.004
- There's a lot of protections along the way.
- 00:47:31.004 --> 00:47:32.506
- But the ultimate protection is just simple math.
- 00:47:32.506 --> 00:47:35.108
- It takes 38 states to ratify anything
- 00:47:35.108 --> 00:47:38.078
- that comes out of convention.
- 00:47:38.078 --> 00:47:39.146
- A convention can only suggest.
- 00:47:39.146 --> 00:47:41.348
- So whatever comes out of convention
- 00:47:41.348 --> 00:47:42.749
- requires a super-majority, the highest bar
- 00:47:42.749 --> 00:47:44.851
- in our entire system of governance.
- 00:47:44.851 --> 00:47:46.753
- And I always ask folks like us, people of faith,
- 00:47:46.753 --> 00:47:48.655
- well, if you're concerned about this,
- 00:47:48.655 --> 00:47:50.324
- tell me the proposed amendment and then give me
- 00:47:50.324 --> 00:47:52.559
- the 38 states that you think would ratify it.
- 00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.028
- And I've been offering that to millions of people
- 00:47:55.028 --> 00:47:56.596
- over the years and I've never received
- 00:47:56.596 --> 00:47:57.864
- a single email telling me what 38 states
- 00:47:57.864 --> 00:48:00.767
- would ratify something that they don't like.
- 00:48:00.767 --> 00:48:02.436
- I hear the Second Amendment, for example, all the time.
- 00:48:02.436 --> 00:48:04.771
- We're gonna lose our right to keep and bear arms.
- 00:48:04.771 --> 00:48:07.341
- Well, today there are 23 states that have what's called
- 00:48:07.341 --> 00:48:09.509
- constitutional carry without a permit.
- 00:48:09.509 --> 00:48:12.012
- How do you get to 38 states ratifying something
- 00:48:12.012 --> 00:48:14.781
- to take away our Second Amendment rights?
- 00:48:14.781 --> 00:48:16.149
- It just can't be done by the numbers.
- 00:48:16.149 --> 00:48:18.085
- All the convention calls for that we're working to call
- 00:48:18.085 --> 00:48:20.487
- is anything that would impose term limits
- 00:48:20.487 --> 00:48:22.222
- on the federal government.
- 00:48:22.222 --> 00:48:23.423
- About 85% of people believe in that.
- 00:48:23.423 --> 00:48:25.592
- Anything that would impose financial restrictions,
- 00:48:25.592 --> 00:48:27.828
- like a balanced budget amendment.
- 00:48:27.828 --> 00:48:28.962
- Again, that's an 80, 85% issue.
- 00:48:28.962 --> 00:48:31.398
- And then I think the most important thing,
- 00:48:31.398 --> 00:48:32.866
- anything that would limit or reduce the scope
- 00:48:32.866 --> 00:48:35.769
- and power of the federal government.
- 00:48:35.769 --> 00:48:37.237
- So for you and I, that's things like telling them no,
- 00:48:37.237 --> 00:48:39.706
- you can't be involved in education.
- 00:48:39.706 --> 00:48:41.308
- You can't be involved in healthcare.
- 00:48:41.308 --> 00:48:43.143
- You can't be involved in the environment.
- 00:48:43.143 --> 00:48:44.945
- These are things where the federal government
- 00:48:44.945 --> 00:48:46.313
- was never meant to be involved and we need
- 00:48:46.313 --> 00:48:48.548
- to shrink it back down and put it in the constitutional box.
- 00:48:48.548 --> 00:48:51.351
- So we're not really trying to change the Constitution
- 00:48:51.351 --> 00:48:53.520
- so much as restore the original Constitution.
- 00:48:53.520 --> 00:48:55.789
- - I think that that's really important,
- 00:48:55.789 --> 00:48:57.624
- that you're not trying to change the Constitution.
- 00:48:57.624 --> 00:49:01.028
- You're trying to reign the government back in to line up
- 00:49:01.028 --> 00:49:06.299
- with the original intent of the Constitution,
- 00:49:07.367 --> 00:49:09.970
- which was never to take the responsibility
- 00:49:09.970 --> 00:49:13.273
- to educate our kids away from us as parents,
- 00:49:13.273 --> 00:49:15.976
- tell us how that we're gonna run our healthcare.
- 00:49:15.976 --> 00:49:17.844
- That's something that we do ourselves.
- 00:49:17.844 --> 00:49:19.746
- And tell us how to run our businesses and our churches.
- 00:49:19.746 --> 00:49:21.681
- That's something that God's given for us to handle
- 00:49:21.681 --> 00:49:24.084
- as individuals and as families.
- 00:49:24.084 --> 00:49:26.086
- - Yeah, that's exactly correct.
- 00:49:26.086 --> 00:49:27.554
- - Yeah, so how can people get involved
- 00:49:27.554 --> 00:49:29.423
- in Convention of States?
- 00:49:29.423 --> 00:49:30.624
- - You know, I think this is really important.
- 00:49:30.624 --> 00:49:32.125
- You know, we talk about a lot of stuff
- 00:49:32.125 --> 00:49:33.226
- in politics and in faith.
- 00:49:33.226 --> 00:49:34.995
- And then the question is what do we do actually
- 00:49:34.995 --> 00:49:37.631
- 'cause talking is one thing and it's good
- 00:49:37.631 --> 00:49:39.599
- that we talk about it.
- 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:40.867
- What you do is people go to Convention of States.
- 00:49:40.867 --> 00:49:42.903
- They send a petition.
- 00:49:42.903 --> 00:49:44.104
- They click on the link, send a petition
- 00:49:44.104 --> 00:49:45.338
- to their state legislatures.
- 00:49:45.338 --> 00:49:46.440
- - And how do they go there?
- 00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:47.541
- - ConventionOfStates.com.
- 00:49:47.541 --> 00:49:49.376
- And they click on the link to sign the petition.
- 00:49:49.376 --> 00:49:51.812
- And then more importantly, click on the Take Action tab.
- 00:49:51.812 --> 00:49:54.681
- Volunteer to be involved.
- 00:49:54.681 --> 00:49:56.183
- And our folks are involved in a lot more than this.
- 00:49:56.183 --> 00:49:57.951
- They're fighting for their faith, their freedom of religion
- 00:49:57.951 --> 00:50:00.454
- in state legislatures, right to life,
- 00:50:00.454 --> 00:50:02.489
- right to keep and bear arms.
- 00:50:02.489 --> 00:50:04.324
- If you get involved, you're gonna be involved
- 00:50:04.324 --> 00:50:05.625
- in a family of people, primarily believers,
- 00:50:05.625 --> 00:50:08.161
- all across this country in all 50 states.
- 00:50:08.161 --> 00:50:09.963
- Wherever you are, we need you involved today.
- 00:50:09.963 --> 00:50:12.666
- Over 5.2 million people are involved
- 00:50:12.666 --> 00:50:14.935
- there at conventionofstates.com.
- 00:50:14.935 --> 00:50:18.205
- - This is important.
- 00:50:18.872 --> 00:50:20.373
- This is something that we need to to learn more about.
- 00:50:20.373 --> 00:50:23.210
- Convention of States is already I believe halfway there
- 00:50:23.210 --> 00:50:27.247
- to getting three-quarters of the states in the union
- 00:50:27.247 --> 00:50:31.351
- to agree to call a convention.
- 00:50:31.351 --> 00:50:33.153
- This is real. This is happening.
- 00:50:33.153 --> 00:50:34.654
- Mark, thanks so much for leading the charge on this
- 00:50:34.654 --> 00:50:36.857
- and for helping to ensure that our freedom to worship God
- 00:50:36.857 --> 00:50:40.594
- remains unfettered in America.
- 00:50:40.594 --> 00:50:43.063
- We'll be right back with today's takeaways.
- 00:50:43.063 --> 00:50:45.365
- (upbeat music)
- 00:50:45.365 --> 00:50:50.003
- (upbeat music)
- 00:50:50.003 --> 00:50:56.776
- Welcome back, thanks for joining us today
- 00:50:57.911 --> 00:51:00.113
- for this great conversation about how we can celebrate
- 00:51:00.113 --> 00:51:03.350
- and protect our God-given rights
- 00:51:03.350 --> 00:51:05.819
- and constitutional freedoms.
- 00:51:05.819 --> 00:51:07.854
- Thank you, Kristen Waggoner and Mark Meckler
- 00:51:07.854 --> 00:51:10.824
- for making time to be with us today.
- 00:51:10.824 --> 00:51:12.893
- Here's today's takeaways.
- 00:51:12.893 --> 00:51:14.394
- One, our job is to pass freedom on to the next generation.
- 00:51:15.695 --> 00:51:20.467
- A famous president once said, "Freedom is never more
- 00:51:20.467 --> 00:51:23.803
- "than one generation away from extinction.
- 00:51:23.803 --> 00:51:26.840
- "We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream.
- 00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:29.609
- "It must be fought for, protected, and handed on
- 00:51:29.609 --> 00:51:33.113
- "for them to do the same or one day we will spend
- 00:51:33.113 --> 00:51:36.683
- "our sunset years telling our children
- 00:51:36.683 --> 00:51:38.852
- "and our children's children what it was once like
- 00:51:38.852 --> 00:51:41.621
- "in the United States when men were free."
- 00:51:41.621 --> 00:51:45.392
- While Kristen and organizations like ADF are fighting
- 00:51:45.392 --> 00:51:48.562
- for freedom at the Supreme Court level,
- 00:51:48.562 --> 00:51:51.097
- we need to be doing our part by exercising
- 00:51:51.097 --> 00:51:54.134
- those blood-bought freedoms like the freedom of speech,
- 00:51:54.134 --> 00:51:57.204
- the freedom of religion, freedom of conscience,
- 00:51:57.204 --> 00:52:00.040
- or they'll vanish away.
- 00:52:00.040 --> 00:52:02.375
- As the old saying goes, use it or lose it.
- 00:52:02.375 --> 00:52:06.947
- Two, biblical values lead to human flourishing.
- 00:52:06.947 --> 00:52:11.751
- Kristen said that when people embrace biblical values
- 00:52:11.751 --> 00:52:14.888
- and principles, it lifts up the entire nation.
- 00:52:14.888 --> 00:52:18.458
- Even those who are not in the family of faith benefit
- 00:52:18.458 --> 00:52:21.661
- when the principles of scripture are put into action.
- 00:52:21.661 --> 00:52:25.332
- When we follow God's plan for the family,
- 00:52:25.332 --> 00:52:27.601
- the church, and civil government, we see progress, order,
- 00:52:27.601 --> 00:52:31.938
- and freedom, things we can all benefit from.
- 00:52:31.938 --> 00:52:35.408
- Three, don't divorce your faith from your politics.
- 00:52:36.810 --> 00:52:41.715
- Evil men count on good men doing nothing.
- 00:52:42.782 --> 00:52:46.419
- As Plato once said, "The price good men pay for indifference
- 00:52:46.419 --> 00:52:50.357
- "to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- 00:52:50.357 --> 00:52:54.561
- That's so true.
- 00:52:54.561 --> 00:52:55.895
- When the family of faith fails to participate
- 00:52:55.895 --> 00:52:59.065
- and lead in the public square, those who stand
- 00:52:59.065 --> 00:53:02.035
- in opposition to our values gain territory
- 00:53:02.035 --> 00:53:04.971
- and good people lose valuable ground.
- 00:53:04.971 --> 00:53:08.541
- Four, get involved.
- 00:53:09.209 --> 00:53:11.678
- If what you heard today from Mark Meckler was inspiring
- 00:53:11.678 --> 00:53:14.748
- and his message of returning the federal government
- 00:53:14.748 --> 00:53:17.717
- back to its original limited purpose and giving power back
- 00:53:17.717 --> 00:53:21.755
- to the states as the founding fathers intended,
- 00:53:21.755 --> 00:53:25.525
- visit ConventionofStates.com to learn more
- 00:53:25.525 --> 00:53:29.496
- and sign the petition.
- 00:53:29.496 --> 00:53:31.231
- That's all for this episode of Takeaways.
- 00:53:32.332 --> 00:53:34.434
- Thanks for watching.
- 00:53:34.434 --> 00:53:35.969
- And if you've enjoyed this show, don't forget to set
- 00:53:35.969 --> 00:53:38.238
- your DVR to never miss an episode.
- 00:53:38.238 --> 00:53:40.674
- And of course you can always catch up on past episodes
- 00:53:40.674 --> 00:53:43.843
- by searching for Takeaways on the TBN app.
- 00:53:43.843 --> 00:53:46.913
- Hope to see you next time for more great conversations.
- 00:53:48.248 --> 00:53:51.217
- (upbeat music)
- 00:53:51.217 --> 00:53:51.217